Login   Register     FAQ    Members

View unanswered posts   View active topics


Board index .:|:. Raiding the Library :: Fiction .:|:. Joey's Trunk
It is currently 24 Sep 2017, 09:47



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Joey's Anna and the Pfeifens
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2016, 12:14 
Offline
Battling with Matey
Battling with Matey
User avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2015, 15:14
Posts: 197
Was Joey's faithful Anna a Pfeifen? If not, does anyone know her surname?

Also, how many Pfeifen girls get named in the series, and what is the age order? Am I right in thinking that Marie was the eldest, and... Luise (?) came second and took over at the Chalet when Marie went to the Sonnalpe? I know Rosli was about fourteen round about the time of Head Girl, but were there any others in between?

Thanks in advance for the help! :)

_________________
"In the absence of knowledge, it is easier to judge than to understand."
James Axtell, 'Moral Reflections on Columbus'


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joey's Anna and the Pfeifens
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2016, 12:43 
Offline
Despairing over Geometry
Despairing over Geometry
User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2012, 16:53
Posts: 2496
Location: West London Alps
There's a thread about the Pfeiffen family here.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joey's Anna and the Pfeifens
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2016, 13:42 
Offline
Battling with Matey
Battling with Matey
User avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2015, 15:14
Posts: 197
Thanks, Noreen, that's very helpful! :D

Do we think the Rosli Pfeifen mentioned in New House is Rosa EBDed?
And if we know Anna is a cousin of Marie etc, do we know anything about siblings of Anna's?

_________________
"In the absence of knowledge, it is easier to judge than to understand."
James Axtell, 'Moral Reflections on Columbus'


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joey's Anna and the Pfeifens
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2016, 14:24 
Offline
Cooking Disaster!
Cooking Disaster!
User avatar

Joined: 27 Mar 2015, 20:29
Posts: 309
Location: East Yorkshire, UK
Rietta wrote:
Do we think the Rosli Pfeifen mentioned in New House is Rosa EBDed?


She might be the same person, not necessarily EBDed. The suffix '-li' is a short form, used in the south of the German-speaking world, particularly Austria and Switzerland, of the German suffix '-lein', which is a diminutive. The best-known occurrence of this is 'Frau' changing to 'Fräulein' (woman - girl or Mrs -Miss), but it is also used in an affectionate manner. If '-lein' follows a single-syllable word containing an a, o or u, that letter acquires an umlaut. Rosa, therefore, would become Rösli, but umlauts tend to be hit-and-miss in the CS novels.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joey's Anna and the Pfeifens
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2016, 14:40 
Offline
Despairing over Geometry
Despairing over Geometry
User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2012, 16:53
Posts: 2496
Location: West London Alps
Rietta wrote:
Thanks, Noreen, that's very helpful! :D

Do we think the Rosli Pfeifen mentioned in New House is Rosa EBDed?
And if we know Anna is a cousin of Marie etc, do we know anything about siblings of Anna's?
Oh, you're welcome :D.

I don't recollect anything about siblings of Anna - and they would surely have been mentioned somewhere, if only in conversation, and if only to be EBD'd. I'd always thought it likely that Anna was a Pfeiffen (since Elinor tends to consider father's family more important, at least for minor characters) but that she was an only child whose parents had probably both died quite young.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joey's Anna and the Pfeifens
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2016, 14:51 
Offline
Battling with Matey
Battling with Matey
User avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2015, 15:14
Posts: 197
That's very interesting; thank you, Gottfried! I confess I was too lazy to put the umlaut on Rösli in my previous post ( :oops: ) but I think that's one EBD managed to be pretty consistent on.

Thanks, Noreen! I shall have Anna as Anna Pfeifen, only child and cousin to the other four. Maybe motherless, but living with her cousins as her father is an engineer in the Navy. :D

_________________
"In the absence of knowledge, it is easier to judge than to understand."
James Axtell, 'Moral Reflections on Columbus'


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joey's Anna and the Pfeifens
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2016, 16:06 
Offline
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2004, 13:57
Posts: 7178
Location: Manchester
Herr Pfeifen (Marie's dad) has a brother called Her August Pfeifen, known as Herr August as he's a younger brother, who works on the Tiernsee steamers and features a lot in Head Girl, but we're never told if he's Anna's dad or not.

As well as Marie and Rosa, there are Hansi, Eigen and Luise, who all work at the school at various times, plus Fritzl who's mentioned at Marie's wedding. I think there's also an Eitel, and Madge says in Head Girl that there are 7 younger children still at home. Frau Pfeiffen never shows off about how many kids she's got, though :wink:.

_________________
We really must stop eating like this ...

Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.

http://setinthepast.wordpress.com/




Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joey's Anna and the Pfeifens
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2016, 16:26 
Offline
Promising to do better
Promising to do better

Joined: 17 Nov 2011, 02:45
Posts: 752
Alison H wrote:
Frau Pfeiffen never shows off about how many kids she's got, though :wink:.


That's because fecundity in peasants is a Bad Thing and simply shows a lack of self-control.... :p


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joey's Anna and the Pfeifens
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2016, 20:28 
Offline
Battling with Matey
Battling with Matey
User avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2015, 15:14
Posts: 197
Thanks, Alison :)
Perhaps Frau Pfeifen doesn't boast because it takes someone as "enlightened" as Joey to realise that childbearing is a competitive sport? :roll:

_________________
"In the absence of knowledge, it is easier to judge than to understand."
James Axtell, 'Moral Reflections on Columbus'


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joey's Anna and the Pfeifens
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2016, 10:26 
Offline
Having a say in the Sale theme
Having a say in the Sale theme
User avatar

Joined: 16 Jan 2004, 22:19
Posts: 3591
Location: Melbourne, Australia
According to the encyclopedia (which I'm not sure will clarify anything, but hey, here goes):

Frau Pfeiffau
She may or may not be a Pfeiffen, but she does ironing for the Richardsons in Joey & Co. She is a cousin of Anna, and she and her younger daughter help the Maynards at Die Blumen. She will also help Madge and Jem. She prepares the house in Future. She has a son called Eitel, who is also Anna's cousin. She has sixteen or seventeen children and many of them worked at the Chalet School when it was in the Tyrol (hence why she may be Frau Pfeiffen).

Eitel Pfeiffau
A porter at Seespitz, he helps the Maynard with the luggage in Future. He is Anna's cousin.

Herr Pfeiffen (I)
He comes to visit the school after the flood in Jo of. He lives in Wald Villa (a small, slated house) with his family on the other side of the valley. He is host at Marie Pfeiffen's wedding.

Herr Pfeiffen (II)
He is a porter at Seezspitz in Princess (of course he may be the same Herr Pfeiffen as above.)

Frau Pfeiffen (I)
This is the woman to whom Madge writes about acquiring the school. She welcomes them upon their arrival. She seems to be the mother of Hans, Marie, an unnamed younger sister and Eigen.

Frau Pfeiffen (II)
She is postmistress at the Post (Jo Returns)

Anna Pfeiffen (I)
One of Luise's younger sisters (along with Klara) and thus also sister of Marie. She discovers Baby Voodoo and unknowingly delivers a box of frogs of Mlle Lachenais.

Anna Pfeiffen (II)
Joey's Anna. At one point she mentions her brother Hansi and she is cousin to the Russells' Rosa as well as to Eigen and Eitel.

August Pfeiffen
Brother of Herr Pfeiffen, August works on the Tiernseebahn and is one of the party who rescue Cornelia and the other girls from the salt caves.

Eigen Pfeiffen
He is 11 years old in School At and helps Marie at the school. He goes with Madge after her marriage to live on the Sonnalpe. He comes back down to the school to help set up the fairy-tale sale. He escorts Miss Linton to Spaertz to buy prizes for the fancy dress party in Jo Returns. He is cousin to Anna and brother to Marie and Rosa. He may also be named Eitel.

Fritzel Pfeiffen
He sings a song at Marie Pfeiffen's wedding.

Getterl Pfeiffen
Younger sister of Luise, she works at the Chalet School in Eustacia.

Hans Pfeiffen
He cleans knives, shoes and silver at the School and looks after the porcelain stoves. He is older than Eigen and gets a job working at the Kron Prinz Karl (he carries Matron Webb's bags on to the steamer).

Hansi Pfeiffen
He becomes boy-of-all-work when Eigen goes to the Sonnalpe following Madge's marriage. He saws through the chair backs after Elsie and Maria fitted their heads through holes in the backs. He may have supplied the luminous paint for Baby Voodoo. Anna has a brother called Hansi.

Karen/Karin Pfeiffen (I)
She may or may not be a Pfeiffen, but seems likely to be given the circumstances. She is cook and head of domestic staff in New House. She remains at the school through the English and Swiss years.

Karen Pfeiffen (II)
Another questionable Pfeiffen, this one works at St Mildred's/the finishing branch.

Klara Pfeiffen
Younger sister of Luise and sister of Anna.

Luise Pfeiffen
She may be the small sister of Marie mentioned above and also in School at and Jo of. She becomes maid when Luise goes to the Sonnalpe. Getterl is her younger sister. She has two younger sisters, Anna and Klara.

Marie le Mesurier nee Pfeiffen
The first school cook, Marie marries Andreas. Her brother is Hans and Eigen is her younger brother (Hans may be older or younger, we are not told). She goes to the Sonnalpe with Andreas. She has four children with Andreas.

Rosa Pfeiffen (I)
She is a maid at the Chalet School and is sister of Marie.

Rosa Pfeiffen (II)
She is nursemaid to David and the other Russell children and extended nursery. Sister to Marie and Eigen.

Roesli Pfeiffen
Maid at the school, this may be Rosa (I)

So, trying to untangle all of this:

Pfeiffen family (I)
Mother: Frau Pfeiffen (II)
Father: Herr Pfeiffen (I)
Children
Hans
Fritzerl Pfeiffen
Marie
Eigen
Rosa (II)
Luise
Getterl
Klara
Anna (I)

Pfeiffen family (II)
Mother: Frau Pfeiffen (II)
Father: Herr Pfeiffen (II)
Children
Anna (II)
Hansi

Pfeiffau family
Mother: Frau Pfeiffau nee Pfeiffen
Children
Eitel
Unnamed daughter

Well, most of the above is guesswork so feel free to play fast and loose with it!

_________________
The writer's credo: 'Sometimes you've got to sacrifice the things you like' (Delta Goodrem - Born To Try)


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joey's Anna and the Pfeifens
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2016, 18:10 
Offline
Battling with Matey
Battling with Matey
User avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2015, 15:14
Posts: 197
Thanks KB, that's really helpful :D

_________________
"In the absence of knowledge, it is easier to judge than to understand."
James Axtell, 'Moral Reflections on Columbus'


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joey's Anna and the Pfeifens
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2016, 10:30 
Offline
First Lesson
First Lesson

Joined: 30 Dec 2011, 12:23
Posts: 119
[quote="Noreen

I don't recollect anything about siblings of Anna - and they would surely have been mentioned somewhere, if only in conversation, and if only to be EBD'd. I'd always thought it likely that Anna was a Pfeiffen (since Elinor tends to consider father's family more important, at least for minor characters) but that she was an only child whose parents had probably both died quite young.[/quote]

Her family is mentioned in Coming of Age, when she has to spend the evening of the celebration weekend baking and Joey says that she can have a long weekend off and go home. "Home for her was Breisau on the Tiernsee, and it was a day's journey there, so she did not manage it very often. This long week-end would give her Saturday, Sunday and Monday with her parents and any of the numerous brothers and sisters who happened to be at home." I had always assumed that she was the same Anna who is nearly scared to death in New House, although that is a bit inconsistent with her later character. But, in any case, and certainly if that is true, she is actually younger than Joey - which she is never allowed to appear!


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joey's Anna and the Pfeifens
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2016, 11:51 
Offline
Despairing over Geometry
Despairing over Geometry
User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2012, 16:53
Posts: 2496
Location: West London Alps
Thanks for that, Mabel and sorry for having unintentionally misled you, Rietta. It is indeed hard to believe that Joey's Anna and Anna who thought she'd seen the devil in the music room are the same person.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joey's Anna and the Pfeifens
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2016, 11:59 
Offline
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2004, 13:57
Posts: 7178
Location: Manchester
EBD is a bit obsessed with the idea of "peasants" being frightened by things! Karen is convinced that she's heard a demon or the devil or something when she hears Elma rehearsing her cackles for the part of the bad fairy in the St Mildred's pantomime :roll:. And she's always described as being sensible and formidable and ruling everything with a rod of iron, and, having been at the school for nearly 20 years by then, must be at least in her late 30s.

_________________
We really must stop eating like this ...

Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.

http://setinthepast.wordpress.com/




Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joey's Anna and the Pfeifens
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2016, 12:38 
Offline
Despairing over Geometry
Despairing over Geometry
User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2012, 16:53
Posts: 2496
Location: West London Alps
I have to say, the same sort of thing was running through my head - authors (it isn't just EMBD) often did seem to want to have it both ways, especially with the female characters...


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joey's Anna and the Pfeifens
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2016, 16:08 
Offline
Battling with Matey
Battling with Matey
User avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2015, 15:14
Posts: 197
Noreen wrote:
Thanks for that, Mabel and sorry for having unintentionally misled you, Rietta. It is indeed hard to believe that Joey's Anna and Anna who thought she'd seen the devil in the music room are the same person.


No worries, Noreen. If you look at KB's post, the encyclopaedia has them down as different people, so it's entirely possible that there were two Annas, and coincidentally both had lots of brothers and sisters. Or alternatively... EBDism. Either way, your information was helpful for my drabble. :)



Alison H wrote:
EBD is a bit obsessed with the idea of "peasants" being frightened by things! Karen is convinced that she's heard a demon or the devil or something when she hears Elma rehearsing her cackles for the part of the bad fairy in the St Mildred's pantomime :roll:. And she's always described as being sensible and formidable and ruling everything with a rod of iron, and, having been at the school for nearly 20 years by then, must be at least in her late 30s.


Maybe something went wrong during the cloning process. I mean, by the end of the series, isn't she in charge of both the School proper and St. Mildred's? And probably Carnbach, too, if any more books had been set there...

_________________
"In the absence of knowledge, it is easier to judge than to understand."
James Axtell, 'Moral Reflections on Columbus'


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joey's Anna and the Pfeifens
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2016, 18:47 
Offline
Chosen for the Lacrosse team
Chosen for the Lacrosse team
User avatar

Joined: 03 Jan 2010, 22:35
Posts: 1253
Location: Berkshire, England
I think there are two cooks both called Karen. Somewhere Nell when talking to Hilda refers to "our Karen" implying they have one each. Maybe they are about the same age and the name was top choice for girls around then (though the one at St Mildred's is more likely to be Swiss yan Austrian)


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joey's Anna and the Pfeifens
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2016, 19:44 
Offline
Taking the train home
Taking the train home
User avatar

Joined: 13 Aug 2009, 18:41
Posts: 2615
Location: Czech Republic and Herts UK
ivohenry wrote:
Maybe they are about the same age and the name was top choice for girls around then (though the one at St Mildred's is more likely to be Swiss than Austrian)

Hmm, I am not so sure about this - in sixty years of meeting up with native German speakers from Austria, Germany and Switzerland I have only ever met one Karen/Karin. More common in Scandinavia and Holland....

_________________
Cestina's dolls houses - "But there's never a rose like you..."


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joey's Anna and the Pfeifens
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2016, 20:18 
Offline
Despairing over Geometry
Despairing over Geometry
User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2012, 16:53
Posts: 2496
Location: West London Alps
Yes, the only Karen of the same sort of age that I've met is Danish; my eldest cousin's daughter is Karen, but she was born in 1965, by which time the name was extremely popular in the UK. Charlotte Mary Yonge, whom EMBD was quoting as late as Reunion, also gives both Karen and Karin as Danish.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joey's Anna and the Pfeifens
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2016, 20:21 
Offline
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2004, 13:57
Posts: 7178
Location: Manchester
Karen is cloned .... although in my drabbles about her I got round it by saying that THE Karen went to Welsen but then rejoined the main school when it moved to Switzerland. Karen at the Platz has been at the school since Tyrol, so she's definitely the original Karen ... but so is Karen at Welsen, as she's known Peggy Bettany since Peggy was a toddler.

_________________
We really must stop eating like this ...

Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.

http://setinthepast.wordpress.com/




Top | End
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Board index .:|:. Raiding the Library :: Fiction .:|:. Joey's Trunk
It is currently 24 Sep 2017, 09:47

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group