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Pedants of the World (or the CBB) unite!
http://the-cbb.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=14193
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Author:  cal562301 [ 14 Sep 2017, 13:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pedants of the World (or the CBB) unite!

JayB wrote:
Partly that publishers can't afford the detailed editing processes they used to have, and also partly, I suspect, that very few people under fifty actually know how to use an apostrophe correctly.

Round about the early-mid '70s, the idea took hold that you mustn't stifle children's creativity by teaching them punctuation, so no-one was taught how to use apostrophes. Or what a verb is, or how to punctuate dialogue, and so on.


I know there was a shift then, Jay. But I've never agreed. Early correction of grammar, spelling, etc, certainly never cramped my style, and I still have a very vivid imagination, though I don't write so much fiction these days.

Having said that, even at 'grammar' school in the late 60s/early 70s, I was taught very little formal grammar.

I've also come to the conclusion over the years, that some of us are instinctively good spellers. I just 'know', even sometimes with words I don't recognise immediately, how to spell.

On the other hand, I know quite a few otherwise very intelligent and articulate people, who struggle with the vagaries of English spelling. Many of them are over 50.

Incidentally, I found my instinct useful when learning Spanish, as I remember my first teacher telling us that some people would find the language easier than others. This is because there are vowel changes in some verb forms (too complicated to explain here, look it up if you're interested, sorry!). I have always known instinctively when the vowel should change, whereas some of my classmates struggled with that. In that early class, we were all doing O level Spanish alongside A level French, so we must all have had some capacity for learning languages.

Author:  cestina [ 14 Sep 2017, 17:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pedants of the World (or the CBB) unite!

I agree about the instinctive spelling gene Cal, and I am interested to note that it has transferred to Czech for me in relation to the soft "i" and hard "y" as the Czechs call them. (Both sound the same - as in "is" and both are called "i").

Young Czechs struggle to learn which goes where but I have rarely got it wrong.

I don't believe for one instant that teaching correct grammar and punctuation stifles creativity. My daughter just escaped that nonsense, my son, 3 years younger "benefited" from it. :(

The bad news on the instinctive spelling front is that I am not the only one of my age group, and older, who is now starting to struggle with spelling occasionally. Yet another marker of what may be to come....

Author:  judithR [ 14 Sep 2017, 18:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pedants of the World (or the CBB) unite!

cestina wrote:
I agree about the instinctive spelling gene Cal, and I am interested to note that it has transferred to Czech for me in relation to the soft "i" and hard "y" as the Czechs call them. (Both sound the same - as in "is" and both are called "i").

Young Czechs struggle to learn which goes where but I have rarely got it wrong.

I don't believe for one instant that teaching correct grammar and punctuation stifles creativity. My daughter just escaped that nonsense, my son, 3 years younger "benefited" from it. :(

The bad news on the instinctive spelling front is that I am not the only one of my age group, and older, who is now starting to struggle with spelling occasionally. Yet another marker of what may be to come....


How I envy you. I can't spell even in "phonetic" languages and have to do everything the hard way. Alas my photographic memory is not what it used to be...

I used to transpose syllables, not just letters. Some very weird spellings resulted and I couldn't work out what was wrong.

It was also strange how many words were spelt d,i,c,t,i,o,n,a,r,y.

Author:  cestina [ 04 Oct 2017, 16:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pedants of the World (or the CBB) unite!

I have just been trawling ebay for a brass bed (twelfth scale of course) and am annoyed to note that the site has chosen to adopt the phrase "pre-owned" to replace what they have used so far, namely good old "second-hand".

What with this, and learning that it is now common to describe collectors' items that are no longer in production as "retired", (e.g Hummel figurines), I am once again left wondering what is happening to the English language.

How can an inanimate object be "retired"? It has never had a job in its life!

Author:  Alison H [ 04 Oct 2017, 16:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pedants of the World (or the CBB) unite!

"Pre-owned" isn't too bad compared with "pre-loved", which is often used as a euphemism for "second-hand" when referring to books :lol: .

Author:  cestina [ 04 Oct 2017, 16:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pedants of the World (or the CBB) unite!

Alison H wrote:
"Pre-owned" isn't too bad compared with "pre-loved", which is often used as a euphemism for "second-hand" when referring to books :lol: .

That's true.....

Author:  thefrau46 [ 04 Oct 2017, 19:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pedants of the World (or the CBB) unite!

Alison H wrote:
"Pre-owned" isn't too bad compared with "pre-loved", which is often used as a euphemism for "second-hand" when referring to books :lol: .


Does pre-loved means that the book is particularly dog-eared with dodgy binding from lots of re-reading? :lol:

The Chambers hardbacks in my CS collection are definitely loved. However they are not dog-eared or falling apart as I take care when re-reading them. The older ones no longer have pristine white pages though.

Author:  Victoria [ 05 Oct 2017, 05:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pedants of the World (or the CBB) unite!

"Give something for cancer"

Why? Is cancer homeless, abused, otherwise worthy of support?

Or did you, dear street collector, mean "cancer research" or cancer patients"?


Also
"Up to half price or less".
Supermarket meaning: Goods are reduced. The maximum reduction is 50% of the original price but many goods are reduced by a smaller percentage.
Actual meaning: Goods are reduced by a minimum of 50%.

Author:  fio [ 05 Oct 2017, 18:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pedants of the World (or the CBB) unite!

Victoria wrote:

"Up to half price or less".
Supermarket meaning: Goods are reduced. The maximum reduction is 50% of the original price but many goods are reduced by a smaller percentage.
Actual meaning: Goods are reduced by a minimum of 50%.


'Up to' is usually used when a lesser specific isn't available (eg. up to 30%) as it covers all discounts up to the particular specific. I.e. the discount MAY be 50%. On the other hand, it may not!!! Head offices are crafty that way...........! :roll:

Author:  Victoria [ 05 Oct 2017, 22:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pedants of the World (or the CBB) unite!

fio wrote:
Victoria wrote:

"Up to half price or less".
Supermarket meaning: Goods are reduced. The maximum reduction is 50% of the original price but many goods are reduced by a smaller percentage.
Actual meaning: Goods are reduced by a minimum of 50%.


'Up to' is usually used when a lesser specific isn't available (eg. up to 30%) as it covers all discounts up to the particular specific. I.e. the discount MAY be 50%. On the other hand, it may not!!! Head offices are crafty that way...........! :roll:


But it still isn't the PRICE that's "up to", it's the reduction! If they said "up to 50% (or half-price) off", they would be correct.

Author:  ivohenry [ 05 Oct 2017, 22:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pedants of the World (or the CBB) unite!

Victoria wrote:
fio wrote:
Victoria wrote:

"Up to half price or less".
Supermarket meaning: Goods are reduced. The maximum reduction is 50% of the original price but many goods are reduced by a smaller percentage.
Actual meaning: Goods are reduced by a minimum of 50%.


'Up to' is usually used when a lesser specific isn't available (eg. up to 30%) as it covers all discounts up to the particular specific. I.e. the discount MAY be 50%. On the other hand, it may not!!! Head offices are crafty that way...........! :roll:


But it still isn't the PRICE that's "up to", it's the reduction! If they said "up to 50% (or half-price) off", they would be correct.



The local buses say something similar - "up to every 15 minutes" when they mean the most frequent buses are 15 minutes apart, but some times of the day they are less frequent. Annoys me every time I see it!

Author:  Alison H [ 06 Oct 2017, 14:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pedants of the World (or the CBB) unite!

I've just been e-mailed a copy of the "Chirstmas party" menu at the venue booked for the annual office meal out.

I'm sorely tempted to suggest that we scrap it and book a different venue on principle! Does no-one proof-read anything any more?!

Author:  JayB [ 06 Oct 2017, 22:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pedants of the World (or the CBB) unite!

Quote:
Does no-one proof-read anything any more?!

Earlier this week I was looking at the website of a place where an organisation I'm involved with has been trying to book accommodation for meetings. The number of errors is appalling. The name of the room we want is spelled in two different ways.

And they've completely buggered up our booking, and are blaming it on someone who has now left. All round impression is of a total lack of professionalism. The venue itself, and the location, are great, the admin is dreadful.

Author:  Jayne [ 07 Oct 2017, 20:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pedants of the World (or the CBB) unite!

Alison H wrote:
I've just been e-mailed a copy of the "Chirstmas party" menu at the venue booked for the annual office meal out.


Likewise. Our invite says "Black tie and ball gowns". Did they think a simple "black tie" would have led to confusion? "Oh, black tie for the chaps, I'll wear t-shirt and jeans."

That said, they don't nail down who has to wear what. Maybe one of my male friends will lend me their evening suit... :devil:

Author:  fio [ 07 Oct 2017, 20:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pedants of the World (or the CBB) unite!

Jayne wrote:

Likewise. Our invite says "Black tie and ball gowns". Did they think a simple "black tie" would have led to confusion? "Oh, black tie for the chaps, I'll wear t-shirt and jeans."

That said, they don't nail down who has to wear what. Maybe one of my male friends will lend me their evening suit... :devil:


I can just imagine a drag queen going to that................!? :shock:

Author:  Jayne [ 09 Oct 2017, 22:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pedants of the World (or the CBB) unite!

fio wrote:
I can just imagine a drag queen going to that................!? :shock:


At our Civil Partnership one of our male friends came in a big frock. We thought it was fantastic, he had a good time, but my parents have _never_ acknowledged it happened.

Author:  lizco [ 10 Oct 2017, 11:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pedants of the World (or the CBB) unite!

Jayne wrote:
fio wrote:
I can just imagine a drag queen going to that................!? :shock:


At our Civil Partnership one of our male friends came in a big frock. We thought it was fantastic, he had a good time, but my parents have _never_ acknowledged it happened.


:D :D :D

Have just seen sign outside shop "30% off nightware" - am I alone in thinking this price reduction refers to the sort of pots that (used to) go under the bed?

Author:  judithR [ 10 Oct 2017, 11:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pedants of the World (or the CBB) unite!

I hadn't come across that. My gradmother called them"gzunders" , but my immediate reaction was to hope that the original garment was full length...

Author:  RubyGates [ 11 Oct 2017, 09:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pedants of the World (or the CBB) unite!

Jayne wrote:
fio wrote:
I can just imagine a drag queen going to that................!? :shock:


At our Civil Partnership one of our male friends came in a big frock. We thought it was fantastic, he had a good time, but my parents have _never_ acknowledged it happened.

As long as he wasn't trying to upstage both of you. :lol:

Author:  Gottfried [ 19 Oct 2017, 22:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pedants of the World (or the CBB) unite!

Victoria wrote:
"Up to half price or less".
Supermarket meaning: Goods are reduced. The maximum reduction is 50% of the original price but many goods are reduced by a smaller percentage.
Actual meaning: Goods are reduced by a minimum of 50%.

I often listen to a Canadian Internet radio station. An advertisement they are currently playing is for a Toronto store where, the excited narrator informs me, many items are 50, 75 or even 100 per cent off! I can't see them making much money with that sort of approach.

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