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 Post subject: Ballet [Title changed by Mod] pending deletion
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2017, 05:11 
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This is a question for the CBB hivemind.

Do you support enrolling little boys in ballet?

Many women object because little boys in dance are so rare that there are not separate changing facilities at most ballet schools and they pearl clutch about the little boys seeing their "angels" changing.

But... the problem with that is that not only does that sexualise both pre-teen sexes, those women would *not* care nearly as much about a little boy's embarrassment and humiliation at being caught changing or naked by little girls.

In fact, they'd probably encourage their daughters to tease and laugh.


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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2017, 09:27 
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Yes I support boys doing ballet but that's all I have to say on the subject. You might be better off posing this question on a parenting website. Not sure this is the right forum.

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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2017, 09:42 
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No personal experience of this, though we have very close friends whose elder son did ballet for some years as a child, and I never heard of any gender issues being a problem (and yes, we would have heard if there had been!).

I would support the idea of any child following their interests. I think there is far too much emphasis on gender in life in general, and in the lives of young children especially.

I've never come across the expression hivemind/ hive mind before, and am not sure it applies here:
Quote:
hive mind n. (a) Science Fiction a unified consciousness or intelligence formed by a number of alien individuals, esp. where the resulting consciousness exerts control over its constituent members; (b) any form of thinking or acting among a group of individuals, regarded variously as being stifling of individuality or as leading to a productive collective intelligence.
(Oxford English Dictionary online)


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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2017, 10:02 
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Are you a member of Mumsnet HopeBeale? That "pearl clutch" and hivemind are very Mumsnet expressions. :lol:
I think I've only ever come across them on that site, I'm not a member but I have a look at it now and then thanks to the Mumsnet Madness thread on Twitter.

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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2017, 12:13 
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What a strange question; why in the world should boys, or people of any gender, not do ballet?!

For one thing, how would we get great male dancers if they didn't! Ballet would suffer sadly, and it's a pretty rubbish thing that even today boys wanting to do ballet are so stigmatised.

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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2017, 13:33 
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What about people like Nijinsky? There've been many great male ballet dancers.

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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2017, 14:04 
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My sister has two girls, about eighteen months apart, and then a boy about three years younger. When the girls were about six and seven they went to ballet and wore pretty dresses that flared out and learnt how to spin in a circle. Her son was almost three at the time, and completely unaware that there might be any difference between boys and girls, was very anxious to also go to ballet and look pretty and spin in a circle.

My sister's attitude was that if he still wanted ballet when he was six, she would let him, but in the meantime he lacked the necessary coordination and could make do with some kind of 'Music and Movement' class.

The next year the girls dropped ballet in favour of gymnastics (my sister said she didn't have time or money for them to do both), and his interest in ballet suddenly disappeared.

The oldest girl has gone back to ballet lately, and is actually very good, but her brother hasn't expressed any further interest.

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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2017, 16:14 
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It shouldn't be stigmatised but it is. Particularly by Concerned Mums groups.


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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2017, 16:26 
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HopeBeale wrote:
It shouldn't be stigmatised but it is. Particularly by Concerned Mums groups.

So who do they think their prima ballerina daughters are going to dance with when they make it into the big time?

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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2017, 17:06 
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My daughter did ballet for several years from the age of four and there were several boys who joined in with them perfectly amicably. It was taken for granted that ballet was for both sexes - thank goodness!

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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 19 Sep 2017, 01:55 
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There was an advertisement for a ballet school in the paper a while back. Not only was the ad completely aimed at recruiting small girls, it also talked about "your little princesses"... and not all small girls fit that stereotype.

Those Concerned Mums groups that freak out about little boys in the class... well, when they actually care about how a little boy would feel at being caught changing...


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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 19 Sep 2017, 15:37 
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When ballet classes were held in our town, the children mostly arrived having changed into their ballet clothes, apart from the ballet shoes.

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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 19 Sep 2017, 16:38 
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Jennie wrote:
When ballet classes were held in our town, the children mostly arrived having changed into their ballet clothes, apart from the ballet shoes.

Indeed, all the years my daughter and granddaughter attended ballet classes, they always arrived ready clothed. With my granddaughter there would not have been time or space for any child to do anything other than hurl off their coat and don their shoes.

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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 19 Sep 2017, 18:43 
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I just feel angered at the stigma against boys who want to dance.

Mothers fearing about their daughters' "innocence" and "purity" but not giving a toss at a little boy's humiliation if the genders were reversed...


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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2017, 12:39 
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It's the same argument transphobes use to stop trans people using toilets...

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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2017, 14:03 
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unfortunately these anti-boys in dance women are not being held to account for some reason. It happens, sadly. Myra Hindley, for example, benefited in acquiring victims because of the belief that strange women wouldn't hurt children. so did Rosemary West of Fred and Rosemary West.


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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2017, 02:52 
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My son did baby ballet when he was very small - he watched his sister (20 months older) and wanted to join in. He stopped as it wasn't really his thing and swapped to tap and modern which he thoroughly enjoyed and carried on doing for a number of years. All the children arrived in their dancewear and only changed into their shoes. He was the only boy each each class and at no time did any of the other mums make comments about him, all the girls all took it in their stride.


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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2017, 11:44 
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As male ballet dancers are often viewed as 'Sissies', it's quite clear that those who believe that have never realised just how strong a male ballet dancer has to be, to perform lifts and accomplish those grand jetes.

Apparently, during WW2, male ballet dancers in Russia used to be given double rations because they needed them for their physical exertions.

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A certain edge when she spoke of Mrs Maynard, certainly, but, after all, not everyone could love Joey.
'Life,' said Marvin, 'don't talk to me about life!'


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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2017, 11:56 
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and stupid comedies still find it funny to humiliate a male character by putting them in female ballet attire.


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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2017, 14:35 
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Jennie wrote:
As male ballet dancers are often viewed as 'Sissies', it's quite clear that those who believe that have never realised just how strong a male ballet dancer has to be, to perform lifts and accomplish those grand jetes.

Apparently, during WW2, male ballet dancers in Russia used to be given double rations because they needed them for their physical exertions.


I have always got the impression that viewing male dancers as 'sissies' (and perhaps questioning their sexuality) is more prevalent among men than among women.

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