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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2017, 18:05 
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Getting back to gender, most people if they saw a little girl in overalls playing with a skateboard, they'd think it was adorable or think nothing of it. But if they saw a little boy in a pretty dress playing with dolls, they'd call Social Services on the parents.


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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2017, 18:19 
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HopeBeale wrote:
Getting back to gender, most people if they saw a little girl in overalls playing with a skateboard, they'd think it was adorable or think nothing of it. But if they saw a little boy in a pretty dress playing with dolls, they'd call Social Services on the parents.

I really think you are polarising the argument rather fiercely Hope!

That study is very interesting bythebrook and tied in exceedingly well with a programme I listened to this afternoon on Czech radio which was making very similar points about cognitive ability though it was focusing on the use of complex language and the increasing inability of a rising number of people to formulate abstract thought because their use of language has deteriorated.

This then leads to an inability to follow sophisticated socio-political arguments.
Cue worries about text speak, dumbed down newspapers, and sound bites amongst other things....

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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2017, 18:26 
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I spent some time in the wonderful library at Hull University recently. The toilets are unisex and were clean. (I made sure to leave the seat in the down position).


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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2017, 18:45 
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My favourite colour is also blue. I don't remember anyone ever remarking on this, nor do I remember any particular prevalance of pink in my childhood (1970s). If anything, the prevalent colurs were brown and orange and green. I actually don't think I could have chosen pink if I had wanted to - it just wasn't around.

As far as I can see, the whole pink thing is marketing. As is the princess thing. In some ways, small boys are fortunate in that marketeers haven't found a similarly yacky "thing" to forcefully sell them.

My small nephew - actually, not so small now, he's 10 - has a distinct thing for frocks and so-called female colours. No one is remotely bothered by this. He also plays football and computer games. No one is bothered by that, either.


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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2017, 19:01 
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I agree - I think it's all a marketing thing. When I was a little kid, no-one would have dreamt of wearing a "princess" frock unless they were going to a fancy dress party or were in a school concert! And, as with anything, differentiating markets tends to increase sales, especially if you've got a family with at least one child of each gender and you can make them feel that they need to buy "boys' toys" and "girls' toys" rather than just sharing/handing down general toys.

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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2017, 19:08 
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My point is that modern mothers would name their daughter Daryn but they wouldn't name their son Brittany.


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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2017, 19:57 
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Daryn? Can't say I've ever heard that as a name before. :dontknow:

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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2017, 20:02 
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it happens more in America. Same with surnames as first names on girls (Lindsay, Kimberly etc)


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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2017, 20:04 
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Several baby name sites give Daryn as a girl's name, though I'd not heaed of it either.


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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2017, 21:40 
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My biggest almost faux pas was not realising that Paris was a girl before I met her.

And then there's the spelling. On this side of the Atlantic Leslie is usually a boy and Lesley a girl (my sister's name). My second name is Frances (boy's version Francis but pronounced somewhat differently) but almost always entered incorrectly by those who haven't realised that there are two versions.

I had a male colleague called Hilary and several female colleagues also called Hilary (UK spelling); then there is Vivien/Vivienne/Vivian (two female versions, one male) all versions of which I have encountered.

Just throwing this into the mix for Gottfried

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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2017, 22:00 
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There's also Beverley, maybe more for a girl, but plenty of boys, and Shirley, more girls but some boys (eg LMM Anne's son Shirley, his mother's maiden name.

Back to boys doing ballet, Rumer Godden's Thursday's children is about a boyy who does ballet, having seen sister do it, some family opposition, but goes on to be much better than sister.


Last edited by ivohenry on 30 Sep 2017, 22:22, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2017, 22:14 
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judithR wrote:
I had a male colleague called Hilary and several female colleagues also called Hilary (UK spelling); then there is Vivien/Vivienne/Vivian (two female versions, one male) all versions of which I have encountered.

Just throwing this into the mix for Gottfried


I'm not rising to the bait! I realise that although I would dearly like everything to be like it was in the 1970s, it's not going to happen.


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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2017, 22:40 
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1970s? I am a female Vivian and was born in 1942....

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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2017, 23:00 
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Courtney is another name typically given to girls (afaik) but Courtney from last year's series of The Apprentice was a guy.

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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2017, 23:27 
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Courtney is a surname repurposed as a first name like Lindsay and Kimberly.


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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2017, 23:30 
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HopeBeale wrote:
My point is that modern mothers would name their daughter Daryn but they wouldn't name their son Brittany.
But I thought that was something you particularly objected to - calling boys feminine names?
From the Pedants of the World (or the CBB) Unite! topic:
HopeBeale wrote:
There seems to be a desire among some well-meaning women i know that they could "break feminist ground" by naming a future son Elizabeth or Jane.

*no*. Children are not your political experiment and no child should have to explain their parent's politics every time that they introduce themselves.


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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2017, 23:38 
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Noreen wrote:
HopeBeale wrote:
My point is that modern mothers would name their daughter Daryn but they wouldn't name their son Brittany.
But I thought that was something you particularly objected to - calling boys feminine names?
From the Pedants of the World (or the CBB) Unite! topic:
HopeBeale wrote:
There seems to be a desire among some well-meaning women i know that they could "break feminist ground" by naming a future son Elizabeth or Jane.

*no*. Children are not your political experiment and no child should have to explain their parent's politics every time that they introduce themselves.


I also think it should be ok for girls to just be girls. Giving them boys names or masculine sounding surnames is not good.


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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2017, 07:32 
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I'm inclined to agree about kids not being an experiment when it comes to names - I'm sure celebs think that they're being really cool by naming their kids North West, Apple Martin, Moon Unit Zappa and some of the other things they come up with, but they're not the ones who've got to live with it!

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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2017, 08:59 
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Exactly Alison, When a mother is naming a baby, they are also naming a grown adult.


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 Post subject: Re: little boys in ballet/dance
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2017, 14:02 
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HopeBeale wrote:
Exactly Alison, When a mother is naming a baby, they are also naming a grown adult.

Er.... Fathers do have a say in naming their children as well!

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