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 Post subject: Drabble Subject Discussions.
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2012, 21:44 
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Having checked with mods this is ok, I am starting a Drabble discussion thread here. The idea is to see if we can get back some of the story discussion that used to happen on the drabble threads. The reviews are good, (and please keep reviewing, it really helps it be worth carrying on with a story !) but it isn't always as interactive between readers, and a lot of people have commented that there is something missing compared to before. The main discussion forums are not suitable for drabble discussions obviously, since not all of the people who read CBB read drabbles and vice versa.

Basically the thought was to have this thread, and start discussions on here, much as we do when discussing the original books, but discussing the storylines / characters / ideas in the drabbles.

Hope that makes sense ! If you are a reader or author and have missed the chatter, be nice to see you here, even if it is only saying hello and adding your thoughts every now and again.

To avoid problems, some guidelines to bear in mind :-

A simplification of the guidelines below is -> if you would have been happy saying something on the old drabble threads, it's probably ok here !

It should go without saying that people need to be respectful and remember that in this case we are dealing with something that someone is actively working on now, so be a little thoughtful about what you write. However drabble authors also need to come to this with the right attitude - seeing other people's views of your characters can be very useful, even if they disagree with your interpretation. If it upsets you seeing people discussing them, or if it distracts you from your drabbling then you may be better not to read the thread.

Don't spoil things for others - if a drabble is being reposted on the SDL but is already in the archive, don't give away the plot if you can help it, some people chose to read as they go along rather than go to the archives, so let them discover what happens just as you might a new drabble if you have previous knowledge of the storyline.

Don't come on here to be actively nasty - disagreeing with / querying someone's take on a character is one thing, using this as a forum to put people down is neither necessary or interesting to others. While personally find it helpful if people can tell me they have found a spelling / grammatical mistake in my drabbles, not everyone will be confident enough (or in my case resigned to the scattered-ness of my brain and typing) to cope with too much picking to pieces for the sake of it in a public space. A nicely worded review or a gentle direct message to an author might be a better way to head if there are lots of spelling problems etc.

Please try not to add too many things that are too irrelevant to drabbles / stimulating drabble ideas, such as discussion about your day's activities etc. The Procrastination Party and Playpen and the Rose Garden are the places for that.

This isn't really a drabble advertising space, try if possible not to come and discuss only to promote your own drabbles - people will see that and be bored, so you are more likely to have the opposite effect. Coming on and saying, 'I'm stuck, any ideas?', or 'What do people think my characters might do in this / the other situation' occasionally would probably be ok, or maybe in the case of multiple drabblers, asking if anyone has a preference for which one to update next.

If you aren't a drabble reader / don't like the SDL / don't like change / prefer the drabbles in the archives / don't like people in general etc, this is not the space to express that. Though obviously discussion about drabbles in the archives is fine, just make it clear perhaps where the drabble you are discussing is located if possible.

Examples of the type of things that used to be discussed, and that might be suitable :-

What is going to happen with Charles and Elizabeth or Monty and Naomi. What is Mike up to ? (Stepping out if the Shadows)

Will Tristan and Susie get together, or Susie and Jack, Susie and Nell again etc (or my personal preference, Tristan and Matty..). What is the story behind little Evelyn?? - Tea & Militancy

Who is Mie ?? (12 days of Christmas) - though obviously we have the answer now ! But it's an example of the type of thing that used to be fun speculating about.

What will Audrey do to hurt Len and what on earth happened to with Jack Maynard's death ? (Rachel tests the Chalet School) - again one that has been answered now, and some people already know as it is an archive repost (Don't tell me, I'm enjoying finding out as I go along !) But that is still good as an example.

Should Nancy/Kathy or Nell/Hilda, Nell/Con etc be together / not together / more discrete ? (Various drabbles, the answer to the discretion question usually being yes, but it wouldn't be so funny most of the time if they were sensible.)

Other possibilities for topics are more general :-

There are various drabble situations with gay students / teachers at the moment, what might be the expected reaction in reality at that time, or even now?

How would something like TB be treated in those days, what were Jack and Jem researching, and how might it affect people having those treatments. (eg Jo's Biggest Challenge)

Overage students/ young teacher relationships (eg The Summer Holiday)

Should Hilda / Nell / Matey let Kathy and Nancy know if they know about them, and would a headmistress have a duty to investigate. Or would the staff's right to privacy outweigh the risk of students and parents finding out? (e.g What Matey Knows)

------------------------

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'An adventure was one thing. But an adventure without something to eat was quite another thing. That wouldn't do at all'
Enid Blyton, The Valley of Adventure


Last edited by Beecharmer on 17 Feb 2014, 11:42, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2012, 23:13 
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Just going to make the first post so it's not so difficult to start.

I think Hilda and Nell would have had difficulty justifying allowing Nancy and Kathy to be open, but I also could see them wanting to protect the younger couple from harm, as long as it didn't interfere with their duties.

In some drabble situations Madge and or Joey are portrayed as being unlikely to be sympathetic, and although this isn't my personal view, I can see that they would have been in a difficult position aswell, since the parents could make everything public and the school could well have such bad publicity that it would have had to close.

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Enid Blyton, The Valley of Adventure


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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2012, 23:16 
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Ruth's A Shipwreck drabble brought something to my attention the other day that I'd never previously considered. There's a quote from Peggy, where Hilda says to Joey:
Quote:
"Now, if you’ll come upstairs, you may have a bath, and between us, Nell and I will outfit you.

and it suddenly struck me as an example of the strong relationship between Hilda and Nell (whether just close friendship, which is how I'd always thought of it, or a romantic relationship like in Tom's Beginnings: Hilda and Nell). Anyway, it just struck me as a little detail illustrating how close they are, that Hilda feels no qualms about offering Nell's wardrobe to Joey, and Nell has no objections when she does it.

I like when drabbles highlight something for me that I might have overlooked when reading the books - even if the drabble author didn't highlight it intentionally!

And, speaking of Hilda and Nell, I always rather imagined Hilda wearing a nightgown to bed, while Nell would wear pyjamas. I don't know whether I actually got this idea from the books, or whether it was just my own mental image - does anyone else have any definite ideas on the subject?

There we go - a nice, frivolous, drabble-related post to start us off :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2012, 23:19 
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Thank you !

I hadn't really noticed that, but yes, it is a good example of how Hilda and Nell are close enough to do things like that.

In Beginnings, I see them both wearing nightdresses, no idea why, but could see Nell going to pajamas maybe later. Though I have no idea how likely that was for the time !

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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2012, 23:26 
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I know Joey was always shown wearing pyjamas growing up, and then a nightdress after she's married, although whether the switch came with the marriage or when she left school and became officially grown-up, I couldn't tell you (I'd guess at marriage, but there's nothing in the text to say so.)

But for the mistresses, being single, there doesn't seem to be any definite indication of which they'd be more likely to have worn.


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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2012, 23:27 
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Thanks for starting this thread - it's a really good idea! Not sure I can think of anything for discussion at the moment - except that I always imagine both of them wearing pyjamas...

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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2012, 23:30 
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Yes, I think it will be one of those that we suddenly have things to discuss for a bit, then it goes off again.

Thanks for saying hello and being supportive !

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'An adventure was one thing. But an adventure without something to eat was quite another thing. That wouldn't do at all'
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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2012, 23:34 
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Beecharmer wrote:
In some drabble situations Madge and or Joey are portrayed as being unlikely to be sympathetic, and although this isn't my personal view, I can see that they would have been in a difficult position aswell, since the parents could make everything public and the school could well have such bad publicity that it would have had to close.


Funnily enough, I've always been pretty sure Madge wouldn't be happy about it. Not sure how I can justify that, except by a sort of instinct that she would disapprove morally and personally. Maybe because, despite her travelling experience and her obvious guts in setting up a school on her own in a foreign country, she seems to be nonetheless rather sheltered.

That's just my feeling. As for adult Joey, I have no idea. If I ever get round to writing my planned war drabble, I might discover that...

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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2012, 23:42 
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That does make sense too. I perhaps just want her to be ok about it, as I like Madge !

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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2012, 23:46 
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I don't know about Madge. I think she'd struggle, though if she was very fond of the people, I think she would really try, especially in her younger days.

Joey... I'm not really sure. I think she would be accepting, because she is generally fairly understanding about the way people feel. I certainly think she would make a great effort and not condemn out of hand. I make her pretty positive in drabbles, but that's just my view of her.

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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2012, 23:47 
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Oh, I like her too, she's one of my favourites. I just think that, as a product of her times, she's less likely to have been accepting of that sort of relationship than some other characters.

Mind you, I have Sarah Denny being totally accepting and I'm not sure quite how realistic that is, either!

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Outskirts Of The Twenties: Polari

Non-CS fic: Late Back (Good Omens)


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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2012, 00:01 
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Finn wrote:
Mind you, I have Sarah Denny being totally accepting and I'm not sure quite how realistic that is, either!


I don't know - even back then, some people must have been accepting.


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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2012, 00:04 
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Yes, it's hard to know whether people would have been accepting, since it was still a risky subject to be open about until relatively recently.

I can see Sarah Denny as being accepting, but that could be because I see Sarah Denny as Finn's version !

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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2012, 00:04 
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That's what I like to think, Eleanore :)

And what with her brother being decidedly...odd, she'd definitely had some practice at being accepting!

ETA: gone OT. I think Nell would wear a nightie, and I have no reason for thinking that! Of course, logically she's a pyjama woman, but in any bedtime scenes I've written for her she's always been wearing a nightie...

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Non-CS fic: Late Back (Good Omens)


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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2012, 00:16 
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Lol, I love the idea that we could be going OT from discussions about nighties !

I am the same, though I don't know why. I naturally would think of people wearing pajamas normally, but I guess part of me is thinking of the fact that these people were the same sort of generation as my grandmother who always wore a nighty !

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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2012, 00:31 
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It's quite appropriate, for the first drabble discussion to be about whether Nell would wear a nightie, I think :)

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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2012, 00:34 
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In regards to the female characters being romanticly involving (something I personally find hard to accept from EBD's writing except in the case of Kathie and Nancy) it was actually illegal until 2003 ( I think) under Section 28 of the Local Govt Act (and all prior acts before it's repealment) to actively promote any sort of homosexuality in schools and I know of a teacher who only actively "came out" at her retirement party in the early 2000's. So even if Nancy and Kathie were in a relationship I think it would have been a pretty tightly guarded secret and I except most parents would have been horrified by the idea of a gay teacher in a school at the time EBD was writing. It's still kept "under your hat" if you are a teacher with a gay colleague.

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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2012, 00:47 
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Thanks for joining in Sugar. That is very true, it would have been a very difficult position for the head and owners to be put in - if the couple in question became public knowledge, then if they didn't fire them

That is interesting actually, I had in my head that Section 28 was dated from the 1980s, but of course it makes sense that it would have been around before then in a different form.

I can see that it would still be a difficult one today, I personally freeze slightly when my collegues at work say anything in front of a patient that identifies me as gay, I wouldn't be broadcasting to patients the fact, though am not ashamed / wouldn't lie. As a teacher that would be so much more, since they are dealing with children and potentially their parents' prejudices all of the time.

I actually feel on a personal level that the authorities in the Chalet School were all quite understanding and caring people, so might not have had a personal opinion, but I could see it being a very difficult situation for them to know officially.

In my School of Adventure drabble I sometimes have to resist the urge to have someone in authority bring on an investigation of this highly suspect set up, a school with lots of gay teachers, it is rather unlikely to go un-noticed !

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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2012, 07:57 
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I think people were much more inclined to turn a blind eye about all sorts of things in the 1950s than they are now. Also, people weren't as obsessed with other people's love lives as they are now, when everyone tends to assume that any two people (man and woman, 2 men or 2 women) who are very close must be romantic partners rather than just good friends. I agree that because of the culture of the times it would have been a secret if Kathie and Nancy, or any other pair of mistresses, were together, but I think it's a secret that plenty of other people might have known and just said nothing about.

A lot of workplaces aren't keen on any sort of romances with colleagues, and it could get very complicated in a place where you were living together as well as working together. If the couple split up, it'd be very awkward for everyone.

Madge always seems very tolerant to me :D .

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 Post subject: Re: Drabble Subject Discussions - all welcome
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2012, 09:38 
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That's true, setting aside the fact that Kathy / Nancy, Hilda /Nell are two women, the fact that they are two colleagues is relevant.

Some workplaces actually try to have colleagues who get together sign waivers that the company is not responsible for any sexual harrassment / problems that might happen.

I now have a vision of N and K expecting brimstone and fire and dismissal, and instead getting "please sign here, here and here, and promise not to sue us if/when you split up or have an argument"

Or going by some of the other drabble situations, Gaudenz suddenly turning up with legal representation and a sexual harrassment case. Or restraining order with large list of names !

Another look at it - people tend to think that family might not work well together. Sarah and Tristan are both taken on as extra teachers, and usually live out of school, but I wonder whether nowadays that might be avoided, two people with a known close relationship both working in the same place. Only in terms of the assumption that if one has a family problem / illness they both will.

Going back to pajamas for a minute - I had assumed women wearing pajamas was relatively recent, but from some scouting about on the web I found that the British trend appears to have come from colonials returning, and that in the orginal traditions both men and women wore them. They were particularly common among Anglo Indians, which actually fits with Joey and her Anglo Indian heritage. I would again have put Madge in a nightdress, but it suggests it might have been just as likely that she wore pajamas !

Would Susie in Tea and Militancy have worn nighty or pajamas, I wonder?

Just throwing some other drabble inspired thoughts into the mix - in both Rachel tests the CS and A Threat to the CS at the moment we have the suggestion of outside agents coming to inspect the CS for various reasons. It works for the plots, but it made me think - We have got used to everything in our lives being watched in lots of detail and red tape and inspections with everything, but with the school as a 1930s-1950s instituation that was privately owned, would there have been anyone who would have the right / responsibility for that sort of inspection? I assume so, but who would that be?

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