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 Post subject: Lucy/Chesters etc
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2015, 05:42 
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Isn't there some link where all the family tree is given about the Chesters, Lucys and Ozanne family?


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 Post subject: Re: Lucy/Chesters etc
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2015, 07:26 
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A quick summary:

Captain Michael Temple + Giovanna
Elizabeth Temple
Anne Chester
+ Agnes Weston
Janie Lucy

Elizabeth Temple + Paul Ozanne
Michael Ozanne
Bill Ozanne
Vanna & Nella Ozanne


Anne Temple + Peter Chester
Beth Chester
Paul Chester
Nancy Chester
Piers Chester (died as a baby)
Robin & Dickon Chester
Barbara Chester
Janice Chester

Janie Temple + Julian Lucy
Julie Lucy
John Lucy
Betsy Lucy
Vi Lucy
Barney Lucy
Katharine (Kitten) Lucy

Julian Lucy was an only child.

Peter Chester had four siblings; Jim, Linda, Mary and Andrew.

Paul Ozanne had a much younger half-sister (to whom he was a guardian) Pauline.

Beth married (probably) Noel Atherton and had a daughter. Vanna married an American fruit farmer. Julie married a housemaster from her brother's school.

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 Post subject: Re: Lucy/Chesters etc
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2015, 09:38 
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There's also a tree here (right under the Atherton-Willoughby one)

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 Post subject: Re: Lucy/Chesters etc
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2015, 03:21 
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Thanks. Not having read Seven Scamps or the earlier books it becomes very confusing. And wasn't there some grandfather who married second time and they had a girl who was brought up by her niece?


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 Post subject: Re: Lucy/Chesters etc
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2015, 08:48 
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mohini wrote:
Thanks. Not having read Seven Scamps or the earlier books it becomes very confusing. And wasn't there some grandfather who married second time and they had a girl who was brought up by her niece?


The father of Elizabeth Ozanne, Anne Chester and Janie Lucy married twice as shown above. Janie's mother was his second wife and is half sister to the other two.

Cesca Atherton (Nita Eltringham's mother) is brought up by her older sister, along with the sister's own children. Struggling to think of someone who's brought up by their niece.


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 Post subject: Re: Lucy/Chesters etc
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2015, 09:07 
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I think Cesca is Nita Eltringham's mother.

The Athertons and Willoughbys would be hard to sort out by later books, particularly when they start marrying.

Cesca Eltringham (nee Atherton) is actually the younger half sister of Mrs Atherton, but is raised as an older sibling to the Atherton children.

Rosamund marries Nigel Willoughby, who is the uncle of the Willoughby children, and the much younger brother of Sir Piers Willoughby.

Con marries Rex Willoughby, the eldest son of Sir Piers, which makes Rosamund Con's sister and aunt by marriage.

Beth Chester marries the youngest Atherton, Noel, which makes Beth Blossom Willoughby's aunt by marriage, and Con and Rosamund's sister-in-law. This is the only connection between the Temple family tree and the Atherton/Willoughby one.

Nan Blakeney (who appears in some of the war books) is the daughter of Mrs Atherton's sister. She marries David Willoughby, Rex's younger brother.

So Nan is both Rosamund's first cousin and her niece by marriage, while she is both Con's first cousin and her sister-in-law.

Oh yes, and Paul Ozanne's father's cousin's wife was the guardian of the Temple girls before their father retired, and her son served with Captain Temple.

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Ring the bells that still can ring; Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything; That's how the light gets in
Anthem: Leonard Cohen



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 Post subject: Re: Lucy/Chesters etc
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2015, 09:26 
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Of course she is. I shouldn't type before coffee.


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 Post subject: Re: Lucy/Chesters etc
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2015, 13:06 
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It all sounds a bit incestouos to me, but I don't suppose there were too many eligible marriage candidates around.

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 Post subject: Re: Lucy/Chesters etc
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2015, 16:49 
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Quote:
Cesca Eltringham (nee Atherton) is actually the younger half sister of Mrs Atherton, but is raised as an older sibling to the Atherton children

But if Cesca is half sister of MRs,Atherton, how can she be Atherton? And isn't Francesca mentioned in Gerry goes to school? Rosamund says it is her turn to look after Josie.( I think)


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 Post subject: Re: Lucy/Chesters etc
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2015, 17:06 
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mohini wrote:
Quote:
Cesca Eltringham (nee Atherton) is actually the younger half sister of Mrs Atherton, but is raised as an older sibling to the Atherton children

But if Cesca is half sister of MRs,Atherton, how can she be Atherton? And isn't Francesca mentioned in Gerry goes to school? Rosamund says it is her turn to look after Josie.( I think)


Francesca uses the name Atherton as she's brought up with the Atherton children. She's at school with the others in Gerry and in A Head Girl's Difficulties, I think she's training as a teacher for the younger girls.


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 Post subject: Re: Lucy/Chesters etc
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2015, 03:22 
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So when we start sorting out the Atherton/ Willoughby family I am reminded of the song from the movie The Stupids I think called "I am my own grandpa"


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 Post subject: Re: Lucy/Chesters etc
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2015, 09:02 
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I suspect that it's not all that unusual to be related to yourself - an effect produced by marriages between cousins, for example - and some families even seem to have had a tradition of it. In the past, it was certainly one way that young people had a chance of meeting possible marriage partners - something EMBD is likely to have been familiar with - and I suppose had the advantage that parents were more likely to know the background of the prospective bride or groom, as well as keeping any wealth within the family.

I'm related to myself by both blood and marriage, and eventually discovered that at least one childhood friend was a distant relative.


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 Post subject: Re: Lucy/Chesters etc
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2015, 09:54 
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I'm also related to myself :lol: - my great-grandfather's brother married my great-grandmother's sister, and my grandfather's cousin married my grandmother's cousin. Until fairly recently, most people stayed in the area where they grew up, and didn't really socialise or even work outside it, and marriage outside your own social class and religion would have been unusual, so the choice of partners wasn't that wide. There aren't that many marriages to relatives in the CS books, but Gisela, Bernhilda and Peggy all marry friends' brothers, Jo marries her brother-in-law's friend, Dick marries his boss's daughter, etc. It's only once more girls start going to university that they meet more people from outside their own circle.

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 Post subject: Re: Lucy/Chesters etc
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2015, 10:13 
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Alison H wrote:
It's only once more girls start going to university that they meet more people from outside their own circle.
Yes, and having careers, especially those with potential for travel - the women's branches of the armed forces are an obvious example, though the girls who went into service often had opportunities that way long before the twentieth century.


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 Post subject: Re: Lucy/Chesters etc
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2015, 17:28 
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Noreen wrote:
I'm related to myself by both blood and marriage, and eventually discovered that at least one childhood friend was a distant relative.


I discovered a few years ago when doing family history research that someone I hadn't met since leaving junior school at 10 was a distant relative. My cousin knows her quite well without having known the relationship, and we've since met, several of us doing some exploring at the village our joint ancestors came from.


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 Post subject: Re: Lucy/Chesters etc
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2015, 19:42 
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Apparently. my father is his own cousin.
I am not sure that I understood the explanation.


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 Post subject: Re: Lucy/Chesters etc
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2015, 21:37 
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My parents are related to each other by marriage (something a third cousin three times removed marrying a first cousin twice removed...) and given that she comes from London via Cornwall and Yorkshire, and he comes from East Anglia with a branch in Wales, in was quite an odd moment when I spotted it.

Husband and I have ancestors who were living in the same village at a similar time, but I've not been able to find a connection - disappointing.


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 Post subject: Re: Lucy/Chesters etc
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2015, 22:04 
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SLOC's great-grandmother had a distinctive surname and there are families with that surname still living in the village where his family originated. His aunt - lovely lady but rather snobbish - refuses to believe that there is a connection - "oh no dear, they are nothing to do with us"!


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 Post subject: Re: Lucy/Chesters etc
PostPosted: 23 Jul 2015, 07:58 
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So let me get this straight
Mr Atheton has at least 2 brothers
Quote:
the men went to the study, where Mr Atherton was entertaining his brothers and brothers-in-law

And one sister Miss Atherton,
Quote:
Mr Atherton’s only sister, was there too,

Mrs Artherton who has 2 sisters and one brother
Quote:
Mrs Raphael and Janie followed the bride’s mother to the pretty drawing-room, where they made the acquaintance of her two sisters, Mrs Charles Haldane, and Lady Blakeney, a slender, beautiful woman, who had come over from Ireland with her one treasured little daughter for this wedding of her favourite niece. Miss Atherton, Mr Atherton’s only sister, was there too, and Mrs Aubrey Farringford, wife of Mrs Atherton’s youngest brother. Mrs Farringford had been Jack Ward in her young days, daughter of good old Dr Ward who lived next door

Cesca (Francesca) Atherton who is Mrs Atheton’s half sister marries Jack Eltingram. But then her daughter will make Mrs Atherton Aunty not grandmother.
Quote:
A little girl—eh? Well, that makes Mrs Atherton a grandmother.’

Rosamund Atherton marries Nigel Willoughby who is younger brother of Piers Willoughby.
Con Atherton who is Rosamund’s younger sister marries Rex (son of Piers Willoughby) Willoughby who is Nigel Willoughby’s nephew. That makes Rosamund Con’s Aunt.
Allegra Atherton marries Hugh Redmond ( Related to Lulu Redmond?)
Noel Atherton marries Beth Chester
Maidie’s Willoughby marries Cuthbert Clitheroe
Rex Willoughby marries Con Atherton
David Willoughby marries Nan Blakeney
What happens to Jose Atherton, Marjolaine , Peter, Tim Dina and Britta Willoughby and Paulie and Heather?


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 Post subject: Re: Lucy/Chesters etc
PostPosted: 23 Jul 2015, 10:24 
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Mrs Atherton's maiden name was Farringford. Her father was married twice, she was from the first marriage. There is mention of an older brother Ned, who died in the war.

She had brothers Aubrey, Dr Ralph and Ned. Ned died during WWI, Ralph was a doctor who lived nearby, and Aubrey married Jack Ward, the daughter of the Athertons next door neighbour. Then there are sisters Mrs Charles Haldane, and Nan's Blakeney's mother Gattie. Cesca was the youngest child of the second marriage.

So that's at least seven in that family.

Cesca was adopted and raised as a daughter, and only told of the biological relation when old enough to understand, and she calls the Athertons mother and father.

There is a Miss Atherton mentioned as an only sister of Mr Atherton, and as you say, at least two brothers.

There's a mention of an Auntie Paul, with no last name - that could be Miss Atherton, or Mrs Charles Haldane, or a sister-in-law of Mr Atherton.

Both Con and Nan mention an Aunt Muriel (and Nan an associated uncle Fred). If it's the same person, and a true aunt and uncle of both, that would make an additional sister or brother for Mrs Atherton. If 'Aunt' is being used in a looser form, it could be Mr Atherton's brother.

Peter Willoughby emigrates to Canada and marries a woman there. Jose, Marjolaine, Tim, Dina, Pauline and Heather aren't mentioned after the La Rochelle books. Jose is thinking of being a teacher, Marjolaine is to be presented at court, Tim and Dina are still at school, Pauline has a play produced, and Heather is managing her property.

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Ring the bells that still can ring; Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything; That's how the light gets in
Anthem: Leonard Cohen



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