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 Post subject: Re: Romance in Maids of La Rochelle
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2016, 22:43 
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The second Mrs Temple, from what little we know of her, was a pragmatist, who also cared about her stepdaughters. She must have known her husband didn't have much to leave; one would think she would have addressed the question of the girls' education, given that he would have been absent much of the time. How old were they when she died? I don't recall.

Madge comes up with various options she could have pursued if she hadn't had Joey to consider - getting a post in a school, going out to India with Dick. But as already stated, she was better educated than the Temples, and a much more dynamic personality.

It would make an interesting study - the different options chosen by hard up fictional young women in the 1920s, with or without dependents. On this thread we've had Sylvia and the Fossils, the Bettanys, the Temples, the Devines, the Durrants (which I may have read but don't remember) and the family in Sally's Family (which I haven't read).

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 Post subject: Re: Romance in Maids of La Rochelle
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2016, 23:03 
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Well, I have found mannequins, dress designers and prostitutes - both the professional and the semi-professional....


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 Post subject: Re: Romance in Maids of La Rochelle
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2016, 00:43 
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JayB wrote:
How old were they when she died? I don't recall.


Anne was five months old and Elizabeth was about four when their mother died and they live with their aunt for five years. It is at this point that Mr Temple marries his second wife. We aren't told how old the girls are when Mrs Temple the Second dies, only that they then find a home at Hurst Ridge until Elizabeth is 18, Anne 14 and Janie 9.

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 Post subject: Re: Romance in Maids of La Rochelle
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2016, 12:45 
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So Elizabeth was about nine when they were married. Certainly in a year or two she'd have been of an age when they'd need to think about whether they wanted to educate her with a view to college or a career.

Going back to the question in the OP about romance, and linking to the arranged marriages discussion - I can't recall her name (Agnes something?) or his rank, but was their marriage the only EBD marriage based on just friendship and respect on both sides and entered into for purely practical reasons? He wanted a mother for his girls and she, presumably, wanted a family. (Or was she secretly madly in love with him and willing to settle for what she could have?)

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 Post subject: Re: Romance in Maids of La Rochelle
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2016, 13:06 
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IIRC, he actually came straight out and said that he only wanted to marry her because his sister was moving away and he needed someone to look after his kids. Full marks for honesty - better that than Mr Cochrane not even telling his second wife than he had a daughter - but there's something quite sad about it as well.

Mary-Lou busily informs her friends that Commander Carey has fallen in love with Doris and she doesn't blame him. Hopefully he had, but that one always sounds more like a marriage of convenience as well ... but maybe EBD had embraced romanticism by then!

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 Post subject: Re: Romance in Maids of La Rochelle
PostPosted: 16 Apr 2016, 07:32 
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I suspect second marriages tended to more overt pragmatism than first ones. A widowed woman with kids could be in fairly dire financial straits, or facing the prospect of moving under the authority of a sibling or elderly parent. A widowed man with kids could be desperate for someone to look after the house and kids. And the second Mrs Temple sounds like a nice woman who wanted a house and kids, but was passing into old-maid hood.

For the Careys, that could certainly play a part. Doris was the type who needed someone to look after her, Commander Carey was in poor physical shape and had a young daughter who needed looking after. It must have been odd for Gran, though, living with her daughter-in-law and her daughter-in-law's second husband.

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 Post subject: Re: Romance in Maids of La Rochelle
PostPosted: 16 Apr 2016, 12:21 
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Alison H wrote:
IIRC, he actually came straight out and said that he only wanted to marry her because his sister was moving away and he needed someone to look after his kids. Full marks for honesty - better that than Mr Cochrane not even telling his second wife than he had a daughter - but there's something quite sad about it as well.


I agree with both those sentiments. Here is the scene:

Quote:
He explained to her in what was, surely, one of the oddest proposal scenes imaginable, that his best love lay in a Cornish graveyard, and that, had it not been for the needs of his two little girls, he would never have dreamed of marrying again, but under the circumstances it seemed the only thing for him to do.

Miss Weston heard him out in silence and then she spoke. 'I am honoured,' she said with a certain sweet dignity. 'I accept your offer.'

So Commander Temple and Agnes Weston married, and Elizabeth and Anne found a tender mother, who devoted her whole life to their service. Even the arrival of her own baby made little difference...

Then, one day, a carriage accident deprived the children of their mother and Captain Temple of a wife, for whom he had conceived a deep and true affection.

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 Post subject: Re: Romance in Maids of La Rochelle
PostPosted: 16 Apr 2016, 18:41 
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I love the fact that even in that short scene EBD manages to EBD his title.... :D


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 Post subject: Re: Romance in Maids of La Rochelle
PostPosted: 16 Apr 2016, 18:47 
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I assumed he'd been promoted at some time between his marriage and his wife's death.


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 Post subject: Re: Romance in Maids of La Rochelle
PostPosted: 16 Apr 2016, 18:50 
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Hmm. I thought Commander was senior to Captain, but maybe I have that wrong... :D

ETA: Yes, I'm wrong! Apologies to EBD. However, it still reads oddly to me, and she flip flops Michael Christie's rank similarly.


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 Post subject: Re: Romance in Maids of La Rochelle
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2016, 19:32 
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Perhaps you were thinking of an Army Captain Caroline ? That is quite a junior rank.


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 Post subject: Re: Romance in Maids of La Rochelle
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2016, 22:18 
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Also, if in command of a vessel, couldn't you be called "Captain" even if your official rank differed? Or is that something that didn't happen in the UK?

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 Post subject: Re: Romance in Maids of La Rochelle
PostPosted: 25 Jun 2016, 16:10 
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Nothing to do with romance but, having been to the fruit farm this morning, I'm wondering how big Janie's garden must have been for it to have taken several people all morning to pick the raspberries! La Rochelle was meant to have been a small house by EBD standards :lol: .

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 Post subject: Re: Romance in Maids of La Rochelle
PostPosted: 25 Jun 2016, 16:32 
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I don't think EMBD had much knowledge or experience of the realities of food, even of picking home-grown fruit: I have the impression that her mother would have presided over that side of things for most of her life (and I would expect them to have employed a cook anyway, especially in the years of the Margaret Roper School, and paying guests). I always think of her when Rosalie goes off to cook coco(a)nut ice for tea one afternoon in a Swiss book - that would be the most she would be expected to do!


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 Post subject: Re: Romance in Maids of La Rochelle
PostPosted: 25 Jun 2016, 17:32 
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Caroline wrote:
Hmm. I thought Commander was senior to Captain, but maybe I have that wrong... :D

ETA: Yes, I'm wrong! Apologies to EBD. However, it still reads oddly to me, and she flip flops Michael Christie's rank similarly.


Just to clear this up, 'commander' is a naval rank immediately junior to 'captain'. Commanders were generally in charge of smaller ships such as frigates. However, if a commander were in charge of a ship, however small, he/she should be addressed as 'captain' so it is possible for both to be correct at the same time. I don't know anything about army captains - the information above is gleaned from literature of the 19th century English navy and I hope it is still valid!


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 Post subject: Re: Romance in Maids of La Rochelle
PostPosted: 25 Jun 2016, 21:00 
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In the Army, Captain is the rank below Major.

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 Post subject: Re: Romance in Maids of La Rochelle
PostPosted: 26 Jun 2016, 17:25 
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Lieutenant in the army and navy and flight lieutenant in the RAF are equivalent ranks, then comes captain in the army, lieutenant commander in the navy and squadron leader in the RAF. After that you have major, commander and wing commander, followed by colonel, captain and group captain.Any one of any rank in the navy who commands any size of ship is referred to as captain for the length of his command. Hope this helps.


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 Post subject: Re: Romance in Maids of La Rochelle
PostPosted: 26 Jun 2016, 22:51 
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Beth R wrote:
Lieutenant in the army and navy and flight lieutenant in the RAF are equivalent ranks, then comes captain in the army, lieutenant commander in the navy and squadron leader in the RAF. After that you have major, commander and wing commander, followed by colonel, captain and group captain.Any one of any rank in the navy who commands any size of ship is referred to as captain for the length of his command. Hope this helps.


Actually, it's slightly different; the RAF ranks should all be one higher.
2nd lieutenant- Pilot Officer- Ensign
Lieutenant- Flying Officer- Sub Lieutenant
Captain- Flight Lieutenant - Lieutenant
Major- Squadron Leader - Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant colonel- Wing Commander - Commander
Colonel- Group Captain -Captain
Brigadier - Air Commodore -Commodore
Major General - Air Vice Marshal - Rear Admiral
Lieutenant General - Air Marshal - Vice Admiral
General - Air Marshal - Admiral
Field Marshal - Marshal of the Royal Air Force - Admiral of the Fleet

EBD definitely seems to favour the Royal Navy over the other services, even if she jumps around the ranks somewhat!


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 Post subject: Re: Romance in Maids of La Rochelle
PostPosted: 27 Jun 2016, 14:04 
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Ensign is not a rank used in the Royal Navy, it's midshipman. Saves confusion with the flags, I suppose, as you salute the Ensign but no-one ever salutes the poor wee snottie!


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 Post subject: Re: Romance in Maids of La Rochelle
PostPosted: 27 Jun 2016, 15:54 
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Whoops, thank you, Shesings :D I'm better on the RAF and army (obviously). We'll get there eventually, between us all!


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