Login   Register     FAQ    Members

View unanswered posts   View active topics


Board index .:|:. Slogging at Lessons :: Books .:|:. Special Sixth
It is currently 16 Jul 2020, 05:47

Forum rules


Please ensure that all posts are kept impersonal. Any posts involving an ad hominem attack will be edited or deleted. Please feel free to express your views, but expect that others may disagree with them. Please limit the use of the :oops: smiley as far as possible. Please do not PM another user to argue with them; if this happens, please can the recipient contact a mod. Language of gentlemen, chaps!



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Raising Sick Children
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2013, 04:00 
Offline
Ricking your ankle
Ricking your ankle
User avatar

Joined: 21 May 2006, 16:51
Posts: 486
Location: Geelong, Australia
A well know Melbourne radio host recently retired and an in interview revealed her son had had leukaemia from aged 6 to 10. She said in one of the family discussions with the doctors and nurses, they said be careful you don't end up with a child you don't like because of how you have raised them while they were ill. It got me thinking about the number of parents raising sick or potentially sick children.

We have Madge and Jem raising the Robin and Josette and being fairly strict about their behaviour with it, saying that their obedience does ensure they remain well. However in the awful week where Madge stays with Josette as her life hangs in the balance, Sybil is emotionally damaged and needs her mother as no one else forgives her for causing Josette to become unwell, except for her mother.

Anne Chester spoils Barbara and insists the entire clan gives way to her at all times and it is said it's only due to her sushiny nature she isn't more spoilt than what she should be and Joey follows Anne's example with Margot with disastrous results as Margot throw tantrums, is easily jealous if she doesn't get the attention she wants and refuses to work as she didn't have to in her early years.

EBD shows how this impacts on the rest of the family especially with Beth Chester during the illness and the long term effect it has on a family in Theodora with the triplets relationship being shaken up completely. We also see Joey following the same path with wanting to give Phil whatever she wants after she has had polio and doesn't seem to have learnt anything from raising Margot and the effect spoiling her, because she was ill had on her and the others.

What do others think?

_________________
You should live each day as though you are going to live forever and as though you will die tomorrow.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Raising Sick Children
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2013, 10:31 
Offline
Arguing with your guardian

Joined: 04 Jul 2013, 13:00
Posts: 9
I think with Phil, it is only meant to be a short term thing. Margot was another of those "delicate" children (although we were never told what was actually wrong with her) and they frequently say that they thought she was only going to have a short life so intended to make it as happy as possible, hence Margot was spoilt.
Phil was actually ill but there was no poor long-term prognosis for her so as soon as she is better I'm sure the usual discipline (or lack of it) will take place.

Peggy and Primula are more examples of delicate children who weren't spoilt.

But then Mike is supposed to have a similar temper to Margots, we just don't see it cos he's a boy so sent away all the time, and there was no reason that he should have been spoilt....


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Raising Sick Children
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2013, 10:38 
Offline
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2004, 13:57
Posts: 8324
Location: Manchester
It's a very interesting topic in the books. There the Jessica Wayne-Rosamund Sefton situation too, and the various pupils in the Tyrol years who've got siblings at the San. & there's also the Sue Meadows-Leila Elstob situation.

It's so hard for parents in this situation, both finding the right balance between not being hard on the sick child but not spoiling them and also being fair to other children. In CS-land, there aren't usually grandparents or other relatives living nearby to help out, either.

I'm not entirely convinced by Jem's insistence on the importance of obedience (although maybe he was thinking of Joey and all the times she gets ill after her escapades!), but I think he and Madge do fairly well with Robin - she isn't indulged or spoilt in the way that Leila is. Having said which, Robin never really actually gets ill.

I'm surprised at Joey's attitude with Margot, especially given all the talk about how Rolf Maynard's mysterious death was due to his having been spoilt: Joey herself was often ill as a child, but there's definitely no suggestion that she was indulged or allowed to get away with bad behaviour. The idea seems to be that she wants Margot to have a happy life if it's only going to be a short one, but even before Margot's illness there's talk about how she's got a bad temper and need discipline.

It's such a shame that we never actually see the Maynards coping with Margot and Phil's illnesses at the time.

_________________
We really must stop eating like this ...

Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.

http://setinthepast.wordpress.com/




Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Raising Sick Children
PostPosted: 13 Dec 2013, 01:16 
Offline
Annoying a Sixth Former
Annoying a Sixth Former
User avatar

Joined: 31 Aug 2004, 04:38
Posts: 611
Location: Newcastle, NSW
Barbara was a horrible little beast to Beth in Janie steps in. How did she improve so much by the time she went to the Oberland

_________________
If sparkly vampires are impaled on a wooden stake do they bleed glitter?


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Raising Sick Children
PostPosted: 14 Dec 2013, 15:59 
Offline
Having a say in the Sale theme
Having a say in the Sale theme
User avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2004, 21:07
Posts: 3539
Location: Cambridgeshire
Presumably because Beth went to the re-opened CS on Guernsey, and then when they moved from Guernsey to the Golden Valley, Beth was again at school, and certainly Barbara was old enough to go to school by then, so that might have had a good influence on her.

_________________
Carpe diem, carpe noctem, carpe pecuniam et exe, celerrime.
A certain edge when she spoke of Mrs Maynard, certainly, but, after all, not everyone could love Joey.
'Life,' said Marvin, 'don't talk to me about life!'


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Raising Sick Children
PostPosted: 14 Dec 2013, 16:30 
Offline
Donating it to the Childrens' Ward
Donating it to the Childrens' Ward
User avatar

Joined: 13 Nov 2005, 11:17
Posts: 1051
Location: Cumbria
Miss Di wrote:
Barbara was a horrible little beast to Beth in Janie steps in. How did she improve so much by the time she went to the Oberland


Barbara was only two in Janie and two year olds can be demanding and unreasonable. Beth became a boarder at the CS shortly after and then Janice was born. Barbara would have had to share her mother's attention and she would have changed as she grew up.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Raising Sick Children
PostPosted: 14 Dec 2013, 18:27 
Offline
Having a say in the Sale theme
Having a say in the Sale theme
User avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2004, 21:07
Posts: 3539
Location: Cambridgeshire
I think that what most people objected to was that Anne insisted that all her children immediately gave in to Barbara whenever she wanted anything or anyone, and that it was bad for her.

My younger son was a small sickly child. He had tonsillitis several times each winter, and often had chest infections as well. This lasted for several years, he didn't grow and it was a terrible problem to get him to put on weight. In the end, I took him to the doctor's, thumped the table and said that enough was enough. He had his tonsils out in the December, and has never looked back. Six feet tall and heavily built.

_________________
Carpe diem, carpe noctem, carpe pecuniam et exe, celerrime.
A certain edge when she spoke of Mrs Maynard, certainly, but, after all, not everyone could love Joey.
'Life,' said Marvin, 'don't talk to me about life!'


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Raising Sick Children
PostPosted: 14 Dec 2013, 19:20 
Offline
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2004, 13:57
Posts: 8324
Location: Manchester
Apparently I only started putting on loads of weight after I had my tonsils out. How I wish the doctors could put them back in :lol: !

Biddy tells Kathie that no-one said anything about Margot (as a junior) not bothering to work, because she was delicate. However, she can't have been seriously ill or she wouldn't have been in school in the first place, and the CS is supposed to specialise in "delicate" girls and there's never any suggestion that anyone else gets away with messing around on the grounds of being "delicate". No-one gets pushed - although some people could probably have done with pushing - but I can't think of anyone else who "slacked and dawdled" (as Biddy puts it) without anyone saying anything.

_________________
We really must stop eating like this ...

Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.

http://setinthepast.wordpress.com/




Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Raising Sick Children
PostPosted: 14 Dec 2013, 19:41 
Offline
Having Miss Ferrars as Form Mistress
Having Miss Ferrars as Form Mistress

Joined: 29 Dec 2009, 15:11
Posts: 443
I have close friends whose baby was born with a significant heart defect - her first op was at three months old and she had ops every year throughout her childhood - luckily medical research was just keeping ahead of her problems. Her parents really battled with themselves about spoiling her and giving her everything she wanted in case her life was very short. In the end, they compromised. Day-to-day discipline was quite strict but there was spoiling with presents and visits to Disneyland. Thank goodness and Great Ormond Street she has grown up to be a lovely young lady - she will never run a marathon but how many of us will? It's a dilemma we don't really see discussed in CS land.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Raising Sick Children
PostPosted: 14 Dec 2013, 21:10 
Offline
Taking Lower IV A for Prep
Taking Lower IV A for Prep
User avatar

Joined: 16 Jan 2004, 22:19
Posts: 3654
Location: Melbourne, Australia
lizco wrote:
It's a dilemma we don't really see discussed in CS land.


We see it a bit with Naomi:

Quote:
Oh, I don’t say you would be able to dance—”

“I couldn’t, anyhow. I’m too old to start now,” Naomi said. “But never mind that. I’ve had all these years to make up my mind to it that that is off. But if it was possible for me to be straight again and walk about and move normally, oh, Mary-Lou, if it ever happened, I’d believe in God again and love Him!”


Of course, this conversation is more to do with religion than anything, but it's a similar thing with her accepting that she can't do one thing but at least she might have a more normal life.

_________________
The writer's credo: 'Sometimes you've got to sacrifice the things you like' (Delta Goodrem - Born To Try)


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Raising Sick Children
PostPosted: 20 Dec 2013, 20:55 
Offline
Receiving support from the form
Receiving support from the form
User avatar

Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 21:21
Posts: 641
Location: On the sofa
I've seen from among my own friends and family how important it is not to discipline children any differently even if they do have a disability. One should nevertheless require the same standards of obedience and courtesy as from all the other children.

In the books, it's really only Margot - and even then it appears only to be about working. She is still expected to behave, and to try to control her temper. Mike also has a bad temper - and we are not only told, but shown, how Jack can lose his, to the point where he has to avoid a child he's furious with so as not to hurt him. I imagine the children inherited this tendency.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Raising Sick Children
PostPosted: 20 Dec 2013, 22:41 
Offline
Ricking your ankle
Ricking your ankle
User avatar

Joined: 21 May 2006, 16:51
Posts: 486
Location: Geelong, Australia
Mrs Redboots wrote:
In the books, it's really only Margot - and even then it appears only to be about working. She is still expected to behave, and to try to control her temper. Mike also has a bad temper - and we are not only told, but shown, how Jack can lose his, to the point where he has to avoid a child he's furious with so as not to hurt him. I imagine the children inherited this tendency.


It's funny but it's only in two books, within a couple of months from each other, that we ever get to see Jack lose his temper to that extreme. He doesn't any earlier and has endless patience. It's only in the latter books that he jumps up and down so much about stuff. I wonder if the pressure of a bigger family and being Head of San was getting to him?

_________________
You should live each day as though you are going to live forever and as though you will die tomorrow.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Raising Sick Children
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2013, 18:46 
Offline
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2004, 13:57
Posts: 8324
Location: Manchester
I think you're probably right :D - I imagine that working long hours in a very stressful job and then coming home to a lot of noisy kids, a not-very-peaceful wife, a badly-behaved dog and frequent visitors from your wife's old school could do anyone's head in, however nice it must be to have children and a well-paid job! Didn't Jem have a snooker room put in at Die Rosen, presumably so that he could get a bit of peace and quiet?

The men are never really given a break. In a short space of time, Jack loses his nephew, his brother and his father, is held and questioned by Nazi officials, has all the stress of the escape from Tyrol, and is then nearly drowned, but he just has to get on with it ... whereas Amy Dunne's mum, for example, gets to go on a round the world cruise to cope with the dreadful trauma of her elder daughter getting married!

_________________
We really must stop eating like this ...

Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.

http://setinthepast.wordpress.com/




Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Raising Sick Children
PostPosted: 09 May 2015, 13:48 
Offline
Dommy Sci lesson
Dommy Sci lesson
User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2015, 16:09
Posts: 317
Location: Somewhere between Gallifrey and Hogwarts
One of the things that I found difficult when working for a time at a school for children with severe physical and learning needs was getting the right balance of discipline and expectation at the appropriate level for individual students. I wonder how Joey would have coped if one of her children had been blind, for example. I suspect there would have been a miracle cure or a "happy death".

_________________
Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Raising Sick Children
PostPosted: 16 Jul 2015, 10:45 
Offline
Receiving support from the form
Receiving support from the form
User avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2004, 21:52
Posts: 640
Location: South Wales
Mrs Redboots wrote:
In the books, it's really only Margot - and even then it appears only to be about working.


And in Margot's defense her 'problem' caused by her not working is that she's in a form with girls her own age


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Raising Sick Children
PostPosted: 16 Jul 2015, 11:03 
Offline
Being a disappointment to Miss Annersley
Being a disappointment to Miss Annersley
User avatar

Joined: 24 Dec 2012, 15:26
Posts: 571
Location: South Wales
Mrs Redboots wrote:
I've seen from among my own friends and family how important it is not to discipline children any differently even if they do have a disability.


I note this is from two years ago, so perhaps a little late to reply. There was an interview with Conservative MP Robert Halfon on Radio 4 yesterday. He has cerebral palsy but his father treated him like his other children, and later like anyone else in the family business - as far as making him taking the bus to work while he drove there in a car. He said it was really tough, but he appreciates it now.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Raising Sick Children
PostPosted: 16 Jul 2015, 12:21 
Offline
Attending the Fifth Form Evening
Attending the Fifth Form Evening
User avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006, 17:54
Posts: 329
I've read a book which is similar, They Came Like Swallows, where one of the children has lost a leg in an accident. The mum expects the boy to do everything all the other boys do, which comes off as harsh, but the boy appreciates being treated like everyone else.

I'd agree that in Margot's case she is disciplined just the same as the other children except in that apparently she's allowed to skive off a bit in her schoolwork. But I think with a lot of the Margot storyline we're told about it later rather than seeing it, and I also think EBD changes what she says happened in order to fit in with her storylines.

I really like the depiction of Phil's recovery from polio - Joey being anxious, and giving Phil treats that she wouldn't necessarily get to try to make her eat for example. I'm sure once Phil starts to get really better she will stop spoiling her. It's not as if Phil is being a brat.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Raising Sick Children
PostPosted: 16 Jul 2015, 12:33 
Offline
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2004, 13:57
Posts: 8324
Location: Manchester
Loryat wrote:
IBut I think with a lot of the Margot storyline we're told about it later rather than seeing it, and I also think EBD changes what she says happened in order to fit in with her storylines.


That's a very good point. There's so much contradiction with Margot. In Rescue, she's only 3 and yet we get Joey and Jack going on about how God's given her a hard row to hoe, and telling her that (the poor kid!), so the idea's supposed to be that her problems are due to a bad temper which is part of her nature. Yet we're also told that she was spoilt because she was "delicate", yet we never see her being "delicate".

I think EBD tied herself in knots over both Margot and Sybil because she puts so much emphasis on children's poor behaviour being because of their upbringing, and she didn't want to suggest that either the Maynards or the Russells might have been anything less than 100% perfect parents ... even though no-one can be that. It works better with, say, Barbara Chester, where she's able to admit that Anne, however good her intentions, got things wrong by babying and spoiling Barbara too much.

_________________
We really must stop eating like this ...

Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.

http://setinthepast.wordpress.com/




Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Raising Sick Children
PostPosted: 16 Jul 2015, 13:02 
Offline
Attending the Fifth Form Evening
Attending the Fifth Form Evening
User avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006, 17:54
Posts: 329
Margot's whole character gets messed around to fit with EBD's story needs if you ask me. In Theodora Rosamund says that Margot has never liked her being friends with Len, but as far as I can remember (and also I have only read pbs so maybe bits were cut) Margot is perfectly friendly to Rosamund and the jealousy is only introduced when EBD decided she wants someone to be jealous - and of course it has to be Margot cos she's the bad one.

IMO it would have been much more interesting if Con was the jealous one.

I think EBD must have thought it would be unrealistic if all of Joey's children were perfect, so one of them has to be bad, but later on she can't bear for Joey to be wrong in anything so she has to bring in all this stuff about Margot being delicate etc. When all she has to do is admit that even with great parenting, some kids turn out a bit more difficult than others.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Raising Sick Children
PostPosted: 16 Jul 2015, 16:42 
Offline
Deciding to learn Russian
Deciding to learn Russian
User avatar

Joined: 08 Feb 2005, 15:50
Posts: 2301
Location: Cheshire
Alison H wrote:
It's so hard for parents in this situation, both finding the right balance between not being hard on the sick child but not spoiling them and also being fair to other children. In CS-land, there aren't usually grandparents or other relatives living nearby to help out, either. .

I can sympathise with this, as we also had no parents or relations around to help when our daughter was diagnosed with a dislocated hip when 6 months old and spent six months in a body plaster from chest down to toes, during which time she also had two operations. Funnily enough it was easy at this age, as babies accept whatever the problem is and get on with it, and although she needed lots of entertainment, was not in any way spoiled by friends or by us.

However, when she was nearly 6, her hip dislocated again. Cue another two ops and six more months of complete body plaster - very hard for a child that age, and for her parents, too. I hope you can imagine the itching, which drove her demented! I was basically stuck in the house with her at first, but then the Red Cross lent us a long, flat type of wheelchair which meant I could take her out for a walk if the weather was fine. Then the school allowed her to attend in the afternoons, if I stayed for toileting purposes. SLOC had made her a flat trolley with foam on top for her to lie on, which she could manoeuvre with her hands on a wooden or tiled floor. Parents and family lived too far away to help, but friends came and there was the inevitability of her being spoiled, as she's an only child. She also got rather too much attention at school, so SLOC and I had the play the heavy and try to expect normal behaviour, which was hard given that she needed more stimulation than most children, who have the freedom to run around and fetch things for themselves. Getting around at home was very hard, pulling her own block of concrete along by her elbows, and I had to restrain myself from going to get whatever she wanted. It was a difficult line which I hope we walked fairly well, but the constant undivided attention did bring problems later on, especially as she was left with some disabilities and one leg shorter by 3 inches.

There were advantages. We both read and talked to her so much that her vocabulary was impressive, and she was reading on her own like an adult by the time she was 7. If she hadn't been in plaster, her dyslexia would have had so much more impact on her subsequent education.

I can completely understand why Jessica's mother concentrated more on Rosamund, making up to her for what she couldn't do, but I do feel more should also have been made of Jessica, because teenagers can all too easily fall into the trap of feeling unloved and unwanted. Perhaps she was paying her the compliment of thinking she would understand. Poor Sue Meadows, though, had a tougher row to hoe, being there mainly to fetch and carry for Leila, who was indeed thoroughly spoiled by her mother. It's hard to get it right, isn't it, when the child is incapacitated? :cry:

_________________
"It takes a long time to live what you learn." May Sarton


Top | End
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Board index .:|:. Slogging at Lessons :: Books .:|:. Special Sixth
It is currently 16 Jul 2020, 05:47

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group