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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 01 Mar 2017, 17:35 
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Maybe we are seeing a Miss Wilson who despite her 'scientific' brain and devotion to teaching actually would have liked to meet someone and settle down. Its strange how there never was a 'certain doctor' for her. Or do the friendships with Con Stewart and Hilda hint at something else?

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 01 Mar 2017, 19:03 
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Carrie A wrote:
Maybe we are seeing a Miss Wilson who despite her 'scientific' brain and devotion to teaching actually would have liked to meet someone and settle down. Its strange how there never was a 'certain doctor' for her. Or do the friendships with Con Stewart and Hilda hint at something else?
I think there was nothing more likely than that our author would have liked to marry a doctor, or at least thought she would have - and that she at least sometimes identified with Miss Wilson - very perceptive, Carrie!

On the other hand, I can't help thinking that as a Victorian-born middle-class female, she was highly unlikely to have known anything much about same-gender love. A great many women were even quite ignorant of anything about the physical side of the male-female marital relationship, and Helen McClelland implies as much about EMBD. After all, this is what underpins the 'reading bad books' storylines - parents felt it was really important to keep their girls 'innocent'. Bill is very much on her own apart from her school 'family', and I read the deep friendship with Con at least as being more like that of an adoptive sister.


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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 01 Mar 2017, 20:11 
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Noreen wrote:
Carrie A wrote:
Maybe we are seeing a Miss Wilson who despite her 'scientific' brain and devotion to teaching actually would have liked to meet someone and settle down. Its strange how there never was a 'certain doctor' for her. Or do the friendships with Con Stewart and Hilda hint at something else?
I think there was nothing more likely than that our author would have liked to marry a doctor, or at least thought she would have - and that she at least sometimes identified with Miss Wilson - very perceptive, Carrie!

On the other hand, I can't help thinking that as a Victorian-born middle-class female, she was highly unlikely to have known anything much about same-gender love. A great many women were even quite ignorant of anything about the physical side of the male-female marital relationship, and Helen McClelland implies as much about EMBD. After all, this is what underpins the 'reading bad books' storylines - parents felt it was really important to keep their girls 'innocent'. Bill is very much on her own apart from her school 'family', and I read the deep friendship with Con at least as being more like that of an adoptive sister.



Yes I see what you mean about Nell and Con. I really like Miss Wilson in 'Camp' and I think she comes across as a very believable character throughout the series (despite the comments about a woman's place etc!)

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 01 Mar 2017, 20:57 
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I think I liked this one mainly because the scenes of daily life in camp resonated with my own experience -- lots of singing, and, at least in troop camp situations, rotating of cooking, woodgathering, etc. The way that minor events were puffed into major camp happenings also rang true.

However, one of my favorite scenes wasn't in camp at all, but Elisaveta's dad's explanation to Rix of why he didn't wear his crown all the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 01 Mar 2017, 21:06 
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Carrie A wrote:
Yes I see what you mean about Nell and Con. I really like Miss Wilson in 'Camp' and I think she comes across as a very believable character throughout the series (despite the comments about a woman's place etc!)
Yes - I always see her as something of an anchor in the Tyrol books. I just don't think the series would have got off the ground (to mix metaphors) so successfully without her - and she even inspires one of the main characters in Jo's first printed book as well. :lol:

I suppose there have to be times when characters become the vehicle for their author's opinions - Joey and the beatniks in Summer Term is another instance, to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 01 Mar 2017, 23:15 
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Wasn't there a reference to the most 'scientific' way to set tables when they started the domestic science classes? :D

I am enjoying this book much more second time around.


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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2017, 00:21 
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Marcia wrote:
Wasn't there a reference to the most 'scientific' way to set tables when they started the domestic science classes? :D.
Good heavens, so there was - I'd forgotten that! It was in Lintons, for after they'd finished their first actual cookery lesson "and of course they would be shown the most scientific ways of laying tables and washing up"... I always like the bit (I forget where it is) when Madge is making cake and Joey says that Frau Mieders would insist that they had all their baking tins prepared at the start. Madge's retort is that that's all very well when you haven't got two small children to look after as well!


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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2017, 09:42 
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We were taught the best way to wash up at age 11 in the half year assigned to Domestic Science [the other half year was needlework!] Glasses first, then cutlery, then crockery - cleanest first, and finally pans. I still work on that basis.

After the first year, no notice was taken of Dom Sci or Needlework unless later on in the school one dropped Latin, and those people did needlework instead. We were supposed to be a very academic school!

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2017, 09:58 
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This book also provides an EBDism when Miss Carthew names her first child after Joey, but later we find out the kid is named after Madge.

At least she has two girls called Margaret and Susan so I assume the oldest girl was named after Madge.

And surely it makes more sense Carty would name her child after a contemporary/friend and boss, rather than a student? She doesn't interact with Joey other than as teacher/student because she leaves while Joey is still at school, and we never get the impression they are especially close.

Admittedly I have never been a teacher so maybe it just seems strange to me. In Glee, one of them is asked to be best man for their teacher's wedding :D

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2017, 10:45 
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abbeybufo wrote:
We were taught the best way to wash up at age 11 in the half year assigned to Domestic Science [the other half year was needlework!] Glasses first, then cutlery, then crockery - cleanest first, and finally pans. I still work on that basis.

After the first year, no notice was taken of Dom Sci or Needlework unless later on in the school one dropped Latin, and those people did needlework instead. We were supposed to be a very academic school!

That makes sense to me for washing up, without being taught it in a scientific manner this is how I do it myself!
I'm very curious about the most scientific way to lay a table though! Anyone know?


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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2017, 11:21 
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Joyce wrote:
This book also provides an EBDism when Miss Carthew names her first child after Joey, but later we find out the kid is named after Madge.

At least she has two girls called Margaret and Susan so I assume the oldest girl was named after Madge.
It's even knottier than that, though - Carty in this book is said to be Mrs Cowley when baby Josephine is born, but in Eustacia Mrs Cowley was the former Miss Durrant. Then in Exploits Miss Durrant is still on the staff, and later still becomes Mrs Redmond. And Carty's daughters Margaret and Susan are Walton (first mentioned in Gay). Someone will doubtless come up with an explanation, though :D...

I do see why when some character from the past is resurrected books or even decades later it's someone pretty obscure, like Winifred Embury or Irma Ancokzky, if only to avoid this sort of thing!


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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2017, 14:34 
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I agree Noreen. And, that is also how I wash dishes, based on a rule of cleanest-dirtiest (not based on what I was taught in school lol).

I've re-read a bit more of this now - and am intrigued all over again by Miss Nalder's mention of The Carved Cartoon which even as a child I thought sounded awesome!

I really don't understand why EBD dropped the Guides when she is so gung-ho about it in earlier books. Even if her publishers recommended she not place quite so much emphasis on it, couldn't she have just had them going on in the background?


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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2017, 16:12 
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I have a soft spot for Camp because the train journey takes them through Natters and Mutters, which, along with Scholastika, helped me deduce that Achensee = Tiernsee back in 1977, which I think is earlier than Helen McLelland. I was 15 and we were on a caravan holiday including Tyrol but my dad refused to detour to Achensee - not sure I ever really forgave him. We stayed by the Natterersee which is definitely not like the Baumersee!


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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2017, 05:29 
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Noreen wrote:
It's even knottier than that, though - Carty in this book is said to be Mrs Cowley when baby Josephine is born, but in Eustacia Mrs Cowley was the former Miss Durrant. Then in Exploits Miss Durrant is still on the staff, and later still becomes Mrs Redmond. And Carty's daughters Margaret and Susan are Walton (first mentioned in Gay).


OK I'll have a shot at it.

Mr Crowley marries Miss Durrant and there is a terrible scandal when he gets Carty pregnant (hence her very swift departure), and they marry following his quicky divorce. They name her Josephine in an effort to get back in the good graces of the CS people which fails rather badly.

Miss Durrant goes back her maiden name and the 'matter' is never spoken of again. Mr Cowley then leaves Carty, taking the baby with him and vanishes forever more.

Miss Durrant remarries Mr Redmond while Carty remarries Mr Walton and has Margaret, Susan etc.

But at CS staff reunions the two women still need to be kept at separate ends of the room. And it is worth noting that Joey does not even consider inviting them to her personal reunion.

cheers,
Joyce

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Last edited by Joyce on 25 Apr 2017, 10:23, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2017, 07:09 
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Loryat wrote:
I've re-read a bit more of this now - and am intrigued all over again by Miss Nalder's mention of The Carved Cartoon which even as a child I thought sounded awesome!

I would like to prepare The Carved Cartoon as an ebook for Project Gutenberg if anybody can find me a 1922 or earlier edition that I can scan. (1922 or earlier is out of copyright in the USA, and Project Gutenberg complies with US law.)


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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2017, 10:05 
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Joyce wrote:
Noreen wrote:
It's even knottier than that, though - Carty in this book is said to be Mrs Cowley when baby Josephine is born, but in Eustacia Mrs Cowley was the former Miss Durrant. Then in Exploits Miss Durrant is still on the staff, and later still becomes Mrs Redmond. And Carty's daughters Margaret and Susan are Walton (first mentioned in Gay).


OK I'll have a shot at it.

Mr Crowley marries Miss Durrant and there is a terrible scandal when he gets Carty pregnant (hence her very swift departure), and they marry following his quicky divorce. They name her Josephine in an effort to get back in the good graces of the CS people which fails rather badly.

Miss Durrant goes back her maiden name and the 'matter' is ever spoken of again. Mr Cowley then leaves Carty, taking the baby with him and vanishes forever more.

Miss Durrant remarries Mr Redmond while Carty remarries Mr Walton and has Margaret, Susan etc.

But at CS staff reunions the two women still need to be kept at separate ends of the room. And it is worth noting that Joey does not even consider inviting them to her personal reunion.

cheers,
Joyce


Oh brilliant! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2017, 22:08 
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Wasn't there a review of 'The Carved Cartoon' on here somewhere a while ago? I remember being disappointed as it is apparently rather dull and hard going. I was always intrigued by the mention of it in 'Camp'.

To revert to the main topic, I loved 'Camp' as a child, even though I had never been to Guides (we moved around a lot when I was young) and never been camping. As an adult, I still enjoy it, but do find some of the Joey worship in it annoying. My favourite part is when they encounter the hornets, although I still don't understand why it would be odd to have thought they were wasps. Are they so different?


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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2017, 22:10 
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bythebrook wrote:
Loryat wrote:
I've re-read a bit more of this now - and am intrigued all over again by Miss Nalder's mention of The Carved Cartoon which even as a child I thought sounded awesome!

I would like to prepare The Carved Cartoon as an ebook for Project Gutenberg if anybody can find me a 1922 or earlier edition that I can scan. (1922 or earlier is out of copyright in the USA, and Project Gutenberg complies with US law.)

It has been digitised from the NYPLib copy. I have it on my Kindle.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2017, 23:07 
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Supersal wrote:
My favourite part is when they encounter the hornets, although I still don't understand why it would be odd to have thought they were wasps. Are they so different?

The hornets we have in the Czech Republic are about twice the size of wasps.....

They are scary to meet.....

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2017, 23:45 
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I wrote about reading 'The Carved Cartoon' (sorry I don't know how to find links): I was aiming to read every book referenced in the CS. I must say I thought I'd read it on PG, my usual source of old stuff, it was certainly online. And yes, I found it badly written and historically extremely dodgy!


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