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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2017, 00:26 
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I find the wasp/hornet dichotomy puzzling also, since my understanding is that hornets are just a subset of wasps, and the nest in Camp sounds just like a local "paper wasp" nest to me. But possibly the British reserve the word "hornet" for the giant European Vespa crabro? True or false? And, if true, are V. crabro the only Tyrolean wasps that would build nests of the type described in Camp?

(I have never seen a Vespa crabro, since they didn't start invading the Americas until after Camp was published and still haven't made it this far.)

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2017, 00:29 
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LucyP wrote:
I wrote about reading 'The Carved Cartoon' (sorry I don't know how to find links): I was aiming to read every book referenced in the CS. I must say I thought I'd read it on PG, my usual source of old stuff, it was certainly online. And yes, I found it badly written and historically extremely dodgy!
Jane posted a link to it on your topic about all the real books mentioned in the CS books:

Jane wrote:
What about The Carved Cartoon, the Austin Clare novel about Grinling Gibbons?
http://archive.org/details/carvedcartoonap00clargoog
1896: SPCK


That's certainly where I read it.


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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2017, 00:44 
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Kathy_S wrote:

(I have never seen a Vespa crabro, since they didn't start invading the Americas until after Camp was published and still haven't made it this far.)

I have met 3, on different occasions, each time shut in the house with me. Two I managed to get out of the wide open french windows, the third was trapped in the woodburning stove; it must have come down the chimney and I assume it found its way up again. The noise coming from inside the stove was very loud indeed.

They are definitely treated with great respect in the CR. There is absolutely no mistaking them for a wasp.

ETA The linguists amongst you might enjoy having a go at its name in Czech: sršeň.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2017, 18:58 
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The only hornet that I have seen was at Guide Camp in Co Cavan. It was much bigger than a wasp.


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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2017, 01:34 
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Something that bothered me during a reread of Camp last night - during the night it starts to rain and six of the girls get out of their tent to loosen the ropes to stop the rain from pouring into the actual tent.

They accidentally wake up Miss Wilson who tells them go back to their tents and warm up and then she brings around a 'steaming jug' of hot milk.

My question - how does she warm up the milk?

The fire was outside so presumably the rain would've put out. She could have lit a fire inside a tent but I was always told that is dangerous because of the risk of setting fire to something and there's nowhere for the smoke to go.

The hot milk might have been left over from supper but it would hardly still be steaming hot.

So any ideas on how she managed it?

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2017, 09:36 
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I imagine she had a little camping stove in her tent. You can see a nice assortment here.

As long as she had the tent flap rolled up I think she would have been safe enough.

Isn't ownership of a camping stove mentioned in another book?

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2017, 09:52 
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I'd forgotten about camping stoves, despite having used one to cook during a folk festival weekend many years ago. I'd wondered whether she'd used some of those new-fangled* thermos flasks to keep hot some milk that had been heated up earlier.

*not that new (1910s) but it's hard for us now to really appreciate the difference they made to things like journeys, picnics and camping when they first became available


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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2017, 10:08 
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We had a canvas cover that went over the fire and cooking area. It was like the top of a ridge tent without any sides and held up wth a couple of poles and guy ropes. There was enough room for the Cook Patrol and a Leader to work. We always had several wet days at camp.

My father had a small Primus stove which he took on holiday for early morning cups of tea in guesthouses. It was fueled by meths.


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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2017, 10:39 
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cestina wrote:
I imagine she had a little camping stove in her tent. You can see a nice assortment here.
Isn't ownership of a camping stove mentioned in another book?


Thanks - I guess that might be it. They look a bit dangerous but I am terrified of anything run off meth/gas tanks after having a very nasty accident with an exploding tank when a kid.

And yes, Joey has a small primus stove with her on the trip to Salzburg in New Chalet School and she uses it on the bus when they are caught out overnight.

Cheers,
Joyce

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2017, 10:58 
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Why on earth did Joey take a primus stove to Salzburg? It seems like a very odd thing to take for a few days stay in someone's house.


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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2017, 11:04 
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I vaguely remember one of the mistresses has one in her bedroom and uses it to make late night hot drinks. And I am sure that Matron will have had access to one...

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2017, 12:14 
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Supersal wrote:
Why on earth did Joey take a primus stove to Salzburg? It seems like a very odd thing to take for a few days stay in someone's house.


Sorry - I've just looked it up and she had her travelling Etna. Which I assume is something similar to a primus stove?

As for why Joey had it with her - who knows?

That's the least of the questions I ask about that trip. But I will wait to raise them when we get round to discussing New Chalet School later on. :D

Cheers,
Joyce

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2017, 13:09 
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Both Primus and Etna appear to have been brand names for portable stoves.

I can imagine taking one with me when travelling, and possibly even visiting, rather like a portable immersion heater

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2017, 13:12 
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Supersal wrote:
Why on earth did Joey take a primus stove to Salzburg? It seems like a very odd thing to take for a few days stay in someone's house.
It was a school trip - I think they weren't intending to stay anywhere overnight.


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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2017, 19:27 
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We used to take a camping stove with us when we were out for the day. It's very useful if you are visiting places where there are not likely to be cafes or other facilities and the tea/coffee is much better than stuff that's been stewing in a vacuum flask all day.

I can see Jo and the staff having a brew while the girls are exploring or playing.


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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2017, 21:05 
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I imagined her taking along some emergency cans of Sterno. Since liquid fuels were considered too dangerous, that's what we carried for "Be Prepared" moments back in the dark ages (later displaced by Esbit type solid fuel pellets). Sterno was certainly around by Camp, since the Wikipedia article shows an ad from 1915. In Cheaper By the Dozen (set before Mr. Gilbreth's death in 1924), Mrs. Gilbreth is described as "slaving over a hot Sterno can" -- on the train! In my imagination, a 1920s Primus would have been too heavy to lug around, though fine in a CS staffroom or Captain Flint's houseboat. (I think I may have been thinking of the ginormous camping stove one of the scout leaders owned. It folded into a metal box, but took up as much room as a suitcase.)

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2017, 18:07 
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Camp was the first CS book I ever read which is probably why I have a soft spot for it - though even at the time I found some of it rather saccharine (the peasants creeping up to hear them sing, and the patronising way the girls behaved when visiting some places)
I do think the dead body in the lake plot is really good fun to read even now, when you can see what is coming.
I was amazed the gang did not know how to do washing and it made me think quite hard about what sort of girls were pupils at this school, which is something which isn't really apparent in some of the books - its just assumed that they come from families rich enough to afford to pay for 1 private education 2 education abroad. In my world as a child clergymen definitely did not have enough money to send their children to foreign boarding schools
Hornets - we had one in our tent on holiday in France a few years ago (it was a Eurocamp tent, which is the nearest I have ever got to camping) and the first thing I thought of was 'oh no I hope there's not a swarm of them' - it was HUGE and seriously aggressive - and I am someone who cheerfully wafts wasps out of windows with a newspaper
I still definitly prefer Camp to some of the other Tyrol books and to most of the Swiss ones - the plot might be silly in places but compared to Redheads it is a marvellous work of logic


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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2017, 20:22 
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Although it's quite clear how uncomfortable clothing would be after such formidable starching as in Camp, I've never really understood just what is supposed to make "rough dried" clothing more uncomfortable than clothing dried in the ordinary way, which I assume would have been on a clothesline. As long as the clothes don't pick up leaves & twigs or something, I can't figure out how they would differ, unless perhaps they aren't positioned to catch a breeze, the way towels dried indoors during winter vs. out on the line in summer come out a bit rougher (as well as less fresh-smelling, though I can't think that would happen outdoors.) Or does it refer to a lack of ironing?

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2017, 21:14 
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It refers to a lack of ironing, Kathy.

Though of course, the wonderful Anna probably had her own secret method of getting clothes to iron themselves.

Imagine, having to do the ironing for two adults (if Jo and Jack can be called that), eleven children, and a bunch of adoptees.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Chalet Girls In Camp
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2017, 21:54 
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Seconding Jennie about the lack of ironing - rough drying was normally used for items of laundry that were intended not to be ironed absolutely straight away. If they were completely dry, they didn't develop rusty-looking stains that were known as 'iron mould'.

The discomfort would come from the fact that we're talking about natural fibres, mainly pure linen and cotton. They can be remarkable stiff if they're rough dried! If you were going to iron them straight away you'd do that while they were slightly damp.


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