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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Mystery at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 31 May 2017, 12:34 
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brie wrote:
It is available as a two in one pb with Chalet School and Rosalie, and I think has also been republished by GGBP. It is quite short but I was actually surprised by both how much they contained and how enjoyable these three stories were when I re-read them. Perhaps they don't stand up to the books immediately before or after them but I think they are pretty enjoyable on their own. I wonder if EBD realised she had given several lovely sets of characters relatively little screen time and set about to remedy that? Does anyone know how much later these were written?


They were published around Barbara, so am assuming they were written around the same time.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Mystery at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 31 May 2017, 21:42 
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Thanks Fiona. Interesting that they were published as she was pushing the La Rochelle connection and reintroducing Beth Chester.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Mystery at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2017, 05:20 
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What are favours?
I think in that context it probably meant compliments, attention, things like fetching her a drink or her wrap.


Actually, looking at it again I think it's an actual thing. It says "at the party he gave her all his favours." So maybe it was the grownup version of a party favour? Either way, from a modern standpoint his attentions sound very dodgy. :!:

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Jo was in England at the beginning of Summer Term. In Oxford Street, specifically, so she might well have popped into Hatchard's or Foyle's or Dillon's.


Oh yeah, she was too. And came home with a teenager and a baby :D

brie wrote:
It is available as a two in one pb with Chalet School and Rosalie, and I think has also been republished by GGBP. It is quite short but I was actually surprised by both how much they contained and how enjoyable these three stories were when I re-read them. Perhaps they don't stand up to the books immediately before or after them but I think they are pretty enjoyable on their own. I wonder if EBD realised she had given several lovely sets of characters relatively little screen time and set about to remedy that? Does anyone know how much later these were written?


So did she write Rescue, skip straight to Three Go, and then go back and write Tom, Mystery and Rosalie?

And yet bizarrely even in the three retrospective books, we don't get the final days of the war. It just ... ends. I wonder why she never wrote about it? Maybe she thought she'd done enough on the war and simply wanted to move on?

cheers,
Joyce

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Mystery at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2017, 07:05 
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Also thinking about it, we spend a lot of time with Bride and Tom in Island so she surely must have sketched out Tom at least by then? Then again I don't think there is any mention of Dorcas in that book? I realise I am skipping ahead to next weeks discussion so I do apologise, but surely Tom's introduction feels too natural to be retrospective? The first house for example is very naturally brought into the narrative rather than a big show being made of it, and it's been some time since I read Island but is Scarlet mentioned in the introduction of Jacynth in Island?

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Mystery at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2017, 07:23 
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I think there is some confusion about the actual dates when Mystery and the others first appeared. Don't forget that Mystery and Tom appeared in the Books for Girls before they came out as stand-alone titles, and most likely Rosalie was destined for a fourth volume. So the actual publication order should look like this:

1945 - Jo to the Rescue
1947 - Chalet Book for Girls (Mystery)
1948 - Second Chalet Book for Girls (Tom part I)
1949 - Third Chalet Book for Girls (Tom part II)
1949 - Three Go to the Chalet School

So while Tom Tackles and Rosalie came out as stand-alone titles in 1955, the same year as Barbara, (Mystery would not come out as a separate title until 1994) they fit so well into the series because they had already been published in order.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Mystery at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2017, 08:06 
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That makes sense. Thanks KB

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Mystery at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2017, 11:34 
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KB wrote:
I think there is some confusion about the actual dates when Mystery and the others first appeared. Don't forget that Mystery and Tom appeared in the Books for Girls before they came out as stand-alone titles, and most likely Rosalie was destined for a fourth volume. So the actual publication order should look like this:

1945 - Jo to the Rescue
1947 - Chalet Book for Girls (Mystery)
1948 - Second Chalet Book for Girls (Tom part I)
1949 - Third Chalet Book for Girls (Tom part II)
1949 - Three Go to the Chalet School


thanks! Interesting to see a two-break between Rescue and the Chalet book for Girls. Though 1949 looked as if it was a good year :D

So were the Chalet Books for girls originally available at bookstores like the normal books? Were they also sold at similar prices?

Cheers,
Joyce

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Mystery at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2017, 12:04 
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She published The Lost Staircase in 1946 (and it would be reasonable to ask which came first in that instance!) so still a Chalet story of sorts.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Mystery at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2017, 09:22 
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I think EBD stopped writing about the war when the war ended, rather than trying to keep the internal chronology of the books matched to real events. And it might have been harder to market books that were still set in war days at that point. EJO does this as well - her books have relative time-lines that are internally consistent, but the external events and time periods are basically when the book was written, so WWI suddenly disappears, and you have books that are a few years apart in story terms, but one has telegraphs and horse drawn carriages, and the other has cars and telephones.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Mystery at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2017, 09:32 
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Lorna Hill's Northern Lights, which is part of the Marjorie series, was rejected by publishers in the late 1940s (and not published until the 1990s) because it was set during the war. It wasn't actually about the war, except that the characters were spending their summer holidays in the countryside because of the risk of air raids at home, and a mention of there being some soldiers training near where they were camping, but the publishers seem to have felt that children didn't want to read about the war and that it was time to move on. I think EBD decided that it was time to leave the war years behind and restart the series a few years later. She did include that storyline about Verity and the German carols in Three Go, but I get the impression that it wasn't very well-received, because nothing like that is mentioned again and the Austrian girls in Mary-Lou's form disappear.

It does seem quite odd that neither the end of the war nor Indian independence are actually referred to, though.

The term "favours" meaning a kind of grown-up going-home-from-a-party present is usually only used for weddings, isn't it? Sugared almonds and that sort of thing :lol:. I read it the same way as JayB - that he was bringing her drinks, complimenting her on her dress, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Mystery at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2017, 02:49 
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Alison H wrote:
The term "favours" meaning a kind of grown-up going-home-from-a-party present is usually only used for weddings, isn't it? Sugared almonds and that sort of thing :lol:. I read it the same way as JayB - that he was bringing her drinks, complimenting her on her dress, etc.


I went back and read the section and it says "at the party he gave her all his favours and would only dance with her" so I think it is something he literally gives her. So probably something like a wedding favour.

Funny how one little sentence that EBD probably threw in there as a
'what the heck' kind of thing can cause questions years later :D

Quote:
I think EBD decided that it was time to leave the war years behind and restart the series a few years later.


Yeah, that makes sense.

And, at the time, she was writing for an audience for whom the war was over so they would probably want to escape to the 'happy' world of Chalet School and get away from real life things like rationing and rebuilding.

That said, I'm glad someone did write the fill-in book because it gives a nice 'end' feel to that part of the series.

cheers,
Joyce

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Mystery at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2017, 08:50 
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To me, that sentence reads he paid attention to her and only her, above all others.

"Favours" as in acts of kindness, approval or liking, or as in to feel or show a preference for someone.


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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Mystery at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2017, 08:55 
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Agree. Favours as a present given at a wedding or party is a very recent usage in UK.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Mystery at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2017, 09:52 
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Joyce wrote:
Funny how one little sentence that EBD probably threw in there as a 'what the heck' kind of thing can cause questions years later :D...
Yes, there do seem to be a lot of those for us to have fun with, if only because even Prefects was published almost half a century ago, and so many things have changed so much in that time.

BTW, Mystery isn't really a fill-in in the sense that we usually use it here, is it? Just a bit of EMBD that didn't make it as a publication in its own right until the 1990s. I was interested by your earlier question about the three 'annuals' (Chalet Book for Girls) - yes, they would be available to buy in the ordinary way. The third one seems to have cost six shillings originally, but my copy doesn't have a dust-wrapper giving the info, so that comes from peering at images - does anyone have more info?


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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Mystery at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2017, 13:36 
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In mediaeval tournaments, knights would ask for a "favour" from the lady of their choice. This would be something basic like a handkerchief that showed that he was "her" chosen one.

As time went on, knights were no longer winning their opponent's armour and horses but playing for prizes. A knight who won would give the prize to "his" lady - ie reciprocating with a token of his favour. These sort of courtly games became, over time, the kind of party games like pass-the-parcel etc. A gentleman could still, acceptably, give his winnings to his "lady" and a gentleman wishing to win his lady's favour (now an expression describing approbation rather than an emblem) would compete - perhaps more frequently that was sensible - since the more things your lady was given, the higher her status and the deeper her favour was likely to be.

I think we are taking about that kind of favour. The small, not valuable things given as party game prizes. It's an accepted and public form of courting.

The same thing happens today when young men go to fairs, win soft toys or balloons or whatever at games of skill and give them to the lady accompanying them.


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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Mystery at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2017, 14:04 
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Quote:
And, at the time, she was writing for an audience for whom the war was over so they would probably want to escape to the 'happy' world of Chalet School and get away from real life things like rationing and rebuilding.


By 1949, when Three Go was published, although rationing was still very much present, the war itself must have seemed quite distant to EBD's younger readers, some of whom would probably only have vague memories of the later years of the war. And Three Go, with a ten year old protagonist, was very much aimed at younger readers.

EBD possibly was aiming to entice in a whole new generation of readers, as those who'd followed her through the years up to Rescue would be presumed to have grown up and moved on by the late 1940s.

The internal chronology of the series, having been pretty consistent through the war years, goes skewiff again here. Although the book was published in 1949, it should strictly take place a couple of years earlier, for the triplets to be the age they are.


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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Mystery at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2017, 22:37 
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I have this book but haven't read it - I've never read it before and I think the few CS titles I never read when I was younger I'm less inclined to re-read. I only bought it for the sake of completeness of my collection.

However, based on the brief given by aquabird I will actually read it.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Mystery at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 04 Jun 2017, 01:44 
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abbeybufo wrote:
Agree. Favours as a present given at a wedding or party is a very recent usage in UK.


I think the favours here meant acts of kindness etc.

Regarding wedding favours, I remember as a small child being at weddings in the north of Scotland in the late 1950s and early 1960s and favours were certainly in existence then.

They were different then though from the small gifts of the present era. The ones I remember were tiny artificial bunches of flowers, maybe 6/8, which were taken round at weddings by the bridesmaid on a tray, and given to the bride's closest female relatives. My mother had a few which she kept in her china cabinet.

Although I read Tom Tackles as part of the series and enjoyed it and then years later read Rosalie, I have no real desire to read Mystery. Goodness knows why not. It could even be in my copy of Rosalie.


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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Mystery at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 04 Jun 2017, 06:16 
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Noreen wrote:
I was interested by your earlier question about the three 'annuals' (Chalet Book for Girls) - yes, they would be available to buy in the ordinary way.


Thanks! I guess they were regarded as a nice 'extra' for CS fans to enjoy.

I was more interested in knowing whether they were regarded as an integral part of the CS series. In other words, if you didn't get them and the stories were never republished as standalone books, as a fan, would you have missed out?

I guess the main thing you would lose is the appearance of Tom who is one of the most original characters of the series. Interesting to see Tom Tackles was originally in two parts and even now you can easily see where the split comes in.

Even JK Rowling, while she was writing the Harry Potter series, wrote a few extra short books for eager fans. Anne Perry also writes short Christmas specials for her fans which are connected to the main series but you can read them as standalones as well.

cheers,
Joyce

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Last edited by Joyce on 04 Jun 2017, 13:04, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: The Mystery at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 04 Jun 2017, 07:48 
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Back in the day, getting an "annual" for Christmas was a quite normal thing, whether related to your favourite girls magazine or related to your favourite author.

I can imagine lots of young Chalet fans being super excited to receive a copy among their presents.

Integral part of the series? Possibly not - and only three were published, over a relatively small time period in the long history of the CS, which suggests they weren't very successful in publishing terms. But I guess as hardbacks, they might have been available in the bookshops for quite some time...?

But yes, you would have missed out if you didn't buy them. However, the CS was published over nearly 50 years, in the days before the internet and before us adult fans, would many people have the whole series? The original fans were probably be used to gaps.


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