Login   Register     FAQ    Members

View unanswered posts   View active topics


Board index .:|:. Slogging at Lessons :: Books .:|:. Special Sixth
It is currently 20 Sep 2017, 12:15

Forum rules


Please ensure that all posts are kept impersonal. Any posts involving an ad hominem attack will be edited or deleted. Please feel free to express your views, but expect that others may disagree with them. Please limit the use of the :oops: smiley as far as possible. Please do not PM another user to argue with them; if this happens, please can the recipient contact a mod. Language of gentlemen, chaps!



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 70 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Books: Peggy of the Chalet School
PostPosted: 07 Jul 2017, 01:51 
Offline
Spending time in the san
Spending time in the san
User avatar

Joined: 25 Feb 2007, 15:45
Posts: 499
Location: Australia
jennifer wrote:
That puts in beautifully. Peggy's the girl who is always sweet and ladylike and right there being helpful, and the adults all think she's totally wonderful, while her peers and juniors resent the "why can't you be more like..." comparisons


Yes! My mother was forever saying that me about various girls who I ended up hating intensely. WHY do parents to that? I ended up screaming at her that if you like XX so much, then go ahead and adopt her.

Mind you, one of the girls she held to me as "why can't you be more like?" got pregnant at 16, so, me being the little brat that I was (am?) asked her if she would like me to do the same!

lizco wrote:
Having worked in a large organisation for many years, it seemed nothing out of the norm for me but it was quite hard to convince her that her colleague was jealous and that's why she was so difficult and then advise her how to cope.


It does happen in real life when someone is passive-aggressively undermining you. And there is little you can do about it.

I also feel sympathy for the Peggy here. Even if she had believed her friends when they told her to be careful about Eilunedd, there was nothing they could actually pinpoint and say "she's been doing XXX to make you look bad."

Cheers,
Joyce

_________________
It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how - Dr Seuss


Last edited by Joyce on 07 Jul 2017, 02:35, edited 1 time in total.

Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Peggy of the Chalet School
PostPosted: 07 Jul 2017, 02:02 
Offline
Rescued by doctors
Rescued by doctors

Joined: 30 Jan 2004, 00:07
Posts: 793
Location: Taiwan
Eilunedd is in Special sixth because she's concentrating on secretarial work - she drops all science and math, and adds Spanish, and has some secretarial classes. Others concentrate on music or art, and someone mentions they plan to do Special Sixth and concentrate on languages.

Early in the Swiss books it goes into a bit of detail about the Sixth form girls' specialization - some get extra music, some art, Julie gets coaching in Roman Law. And once they are 15, girls are generally allowed to drop various subjects, like science, math and art to fit it in. Which doesn't sound all that different from Special Sixth, except those girls tended to be a bit older.

_________________


Ring the bells that still can ring; Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything; That's how the light gets in
Anthem: Leonard Cohen



Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Peggy of the Chalet School
PostPosted: 07 Jul 2017, 13:13 
Offline
Learning to play Lacrosse
Learning to play Lacrosse
User avatar

Joined: 07 Oct 2007, 16:58
Posts: 469
Location: Queen of the Suburbs
jennifer wrote:
Eilunedd is in Special sixth because she's concentrating on secretarial work - she drops all science and math, and adds Spanish, and has some secretarial classes. Others concentrate on music or art, and someone mentions they plan to do Special Sixth and concentrate on languages


How can the school offer a secretarial course to one girl when they have no specialist teacher in this subject. The only person with these skills is Rosalie who has enough to do dealing with the administration of the school.

I took a secretarial course when I left school. It was quite intensive - we learnt shorthand, typing, book-keeping and office skills. It takes time to learn to type or do shorthand and the course covered 2 -3 terms depending how quickly we got jobs.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Peggy of the Chalet School
PostPosted: 07 Jul 2017, 13:33 
Offline
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2004, 13:57
Posts: 7178
Location: Manchester
Rosalie was supposed to be teaching Elinor Pennell secretarial skills in one of the Swiss books, as if she didn't have more than enough work to do as it was :roll:.

_________________
We really must stop eating like this ...

Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.

http://setinthepast.wordpress.com/




Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Peggy of the Chalet School
PostPosted: 07 Jul 2017, 16:09 
Offline
Meeting the escort mistress
User avatar

Joined: 17 Jan 2009, 20:33
Posts: 20
Perhaps Rosalie was getting them to do some of the school work as "practise"?


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Peggy of the Chalet School
PostPosted: 07 Jul 2017, 17:57 
Offline
Rescued by doctors
Rescued by doctors

Joined: 19 Sep 2011, 22:32
Posts: 791
I was taught secretarial studies, or commercial as it was then called, right through secondary school with more classes per week than English. This, even to an older pupil, condensed into a year or two, plus all the planning, would have been quite a chunk out of Rosalie's week. Even teaching Elinor to type would have taken some tuition as Elinor would have had to do this using all her fingers and without looking at the keyboard and that was just a small, relatively simple part. There were none of the aids such as is on keyboards nowadays and even centering had to be worked out manually.

It always sounds quite simple the once or twice Rosalie was ill, the senior girls helping by typing out letters but even that was not so easy and just a small part of a secretary's job.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Peggy of the Chalet School
PostPosted: 07 Jul 2017, 22:18 
Offline
Finding out about the Sale
Finding out about the Sale
User avatar

Joined: 27 May 2006, 13:28
Posts: 844
Location: SE England
I think they should have added a secretarial skills course at St Mildred's, with a specialist teacher. Together with intensive language tuition that would have made it a much more worthwhile way to spend a year.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Peggy of the Chalet School
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2017, 11:28 
Offline
Spending time in the san
Spending time in the san
User avatar

Joined: 25 Feb 2007, 15:45
Posts: 499
Location: Australia
Alison H wrote:
Rosalie was supposed to be teaching Elinor Pennell secretarial skills in one of the Swiss books, as if she didn't have more than enough work to do as it was :roll:.


EBD does love portraying people as more than happy to help out with little or no notice, little or no training and presumably no extra pay!

Stacie helps out teaching at the school in Challenges and while she says she his thankful to have something to do, her compliance is pretty much taken for granted.

Rosalie, as you have said, gives to secretarial training to Elinor Pennell (I notice Joan didn't get any even though she was ended up training as a secretary as well!). I hope all Rosalie was show Elinor the work she did and explained it as she went along so it was more in the form of work experience than her having to teach her typing or shorthand.

And poor Rosa who was hired to look after the Maynard lot and extras (and I wonder what she said when Joey suddenly appeared with Marie Claire and presumably dumped her into the nursery), but is also 'given' to Hillary and Biddy to help out several times a week with their two lots of kids.

Back to Special Sixth, I wonder why EBD invented that form? Did she intend to write a book dedicated to it so she could keep some of her beloved characters who were getting too old for school? But then she came up with the much better idea of the finishing school branch in lovely Switzerland instead.

cheers,
Joyce

_________________
It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how - Dr Seuss


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Peggy of the Chalet School
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2017, 12:15 
Offline
Rescued by doctors
Rescued by doctors

Joined: 19 Sep 2011, 22:32
Posts: 791
I was inclined to think Special Sixth was just a plot device to get any older girls out of the way because EBD was ready to write a book about Peggy as HG. She could actually have got older girls out of the way though just by letting them leave school and no-one would have noticed!

I think the finishing school idea could have been simmering and EBD wanted Peggy's year for this but still wanted them to have their year of power at school so older girls being in the special sixth was a good way of letting Peggy's lot get both.

I don't think she would have written a book about girls in the Special Sixth. They would have had no special powers and EBD did so love her prefects!

I do think the finishing school idea could have been a forerunner to the school going back to Switzerland.

Once the whole school goes to Switzerland I think the finishing school idea loses its edge. Would someone really want to go to finishing school right beside where they had already been at school for several years with a group of the same people. Fine, if you really hated the idea of leaving school. Otherwise, especially as times grew more modern, it would be better to go to university, travel for a year, go to a finishing school elsewhere or even, my goodness, get a job.

From the newsletters, the one other time she could have written a finishing year book was with Mary-Lou. She didn't but she did include Mary-Lou and Vi in Ruey with the lacrosse.

Edited to add -

As others - Joyce - have said EBD should have had special classes for girls wanting to learn secretarial skills.

It wasn't even as if it was only typing, shorthand and book-keeping that had to be taught but also legal stuff like power of attorney and which way to sign letters otherwise for somebody else and also correct ways to write to titled people, churchmen (days gone by) etc.

Rather than hard pressed Rosalie, this could have been taught by Gill Culver who had much less to do. Even girls not wanting a secretarial career might have found some of the classes useful.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Peggy of the Chalet School
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2017, 12:42 
Offline
Spending time in the san
Spending time in the san
User avatar

Joined: 21 Oct 2004, 08:41
Posts: 492
Location: Manchester
Isn't the Special Sixth already in existance in the Plas Howell books...? Or am I misremembering, and EBD only retcons it there?


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Peggy of the Chalet School
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2017, 13:33 
Offline
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2004, 13:57
Posts: 7178
Location: Manchester
She says that Daisy was HG when she was in Special Sixth, but we never see that. Beth Chester, who's the same age as Daisy, is HG in Gay, Tom etc, and then there's a three year gap.

_________________
We really must stop eating like this ...

Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.

http://setinthepast.wordpress.com/




Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Peggy of the Chalet School
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2017, 17:10 
Offline
Rescued by doctors
Rescued by doctors

Joined: 19 Sep 2011, 22:32
Posts: 791
I seem to remember that Daisy was preparing to leave the school in Rosalie without having been head girl. She is probably one of the people EBD thought should have been head girl.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Peggy of the Chalet School
PostPosted: 09 Jul 2017, 05:19 
Offline
Rescued by doctors
Rescued by doctors

Joined: 30 Jan 2004, 00:07
Posts: 793
Location: Taiwan
I did a quick check. Special Sixth is mentioned in Tom Tackles (second half), and in Island, both briefly, but that's all before the plotline in Peggy. The second half of Tom was published around the same time as Island. So it may be that EBD had the plot in mind a book or two before.

Interestingly, we don't actually get career plans for most of the girls in Peggy's year. Nita Eltringham and Peggy are returning home, but for Daphne, Judy, Joan, Hester, Barbara Smith, Nina Williams, etc. don't say anything. For the year above, we get a discussion in Island with varied plans (nursing, farming, museum curator, nun, musician), and Eilunedd is going into secretarial work, Anthea into needlework/translation, Jean McGregor into science, Barbara Henschell becomes a matron. In Bride's year, we've got music, missionary work, teaching, PT mistress, farming, nursing, entering society, and charity work.

The finishing branch makes sense when the school is in England - the school specializes in languages, and it's a chance for students to get a year abroad, polishing their languages. The downside is that it siphons off most of Upper Sixth, which weakens the prefect system a lot, and results in none of the prefects having previous experience. If it had stayed that way, I think they would have had to add some junior prefects from Upper Fifth.

But once the school moves to Switzerland, there's really not much point to move to the finishing branch for a year, and the Mildred's girls don't do exams, so for many of them, it would be an extra year, better served by going straight to university, or doing something different for a gap year.

_________________


Ring the bells that still can ring; Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything; That's how the light gets in
Anthem: Leonard Cohen



Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Peggy of the Chalet School
PostPosted: 09 Jul 2017, 11:05 
Offline
Meeting the escort mistress
User avatar

Joined: 17 Jan 2009, 20:33
Posts: 20
I think the year at Millies ends up being an EBDism, in much the same way that the forms transfigure - eg with Lower 4 a and Lower 4 b sometimes being divisions of the same age group and at other times successive forms.

Originally I suspect it was aimed at girls like Peggy, who were not going on to further education and who would benefit from a finishing year.

But then as more girls went on to university and trained for careers EBD would have had fewer girls to include in stories about St Mildred's, and would have had to introduce lots of girls coming from other schools each year that she wrote about Millies.

It was just easier for EBD to make it a place that everyone went on to, so it could even be attended by girls like Mary-Lou, who would presumably ordinarily have gone straight to university after A-levels and never considered going to finishing school.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Peggy of the Chalet School
PostPosted: 09 Jul 2017, 18:29 
Offline
Finding out about the Sale
Finding out about the Sale
User avatar

Joined: 27 May 2006, 13:28
Posts: 844
Location: SE England
Quote:
....girls like Mary-Lou, who would presumably ordinarily have gone straight to university after A-levels and never considered going to finishing school.

I really don't know what Mary Lou got out of her year at St Mildred's, other than hanging out with her schoolfriends for another year. You'd think someone like her, who liked to get on with things, would be keen to move on to the next stage of her life.

Mary Lou was one of the youngest in her year; some of the older ones might be not far off twenty when they left St Mildred's; ridiculous for them still to be treated as schoolgirls.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Peggy of the Chalet School
PostPosted: 09 Jul 2017, 19:21 
Offline
Castor Oil!
Castor Oil!
User avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2004, 21:57
Posts: 559
Location: UP NORTH
Some of them had two years there didn't they?


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Peggy of the Chalet School
PostPosted: 09 Jul 2017, 20:04 
Offline
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2004, 13:57
Posts: 7178
Location: Manchester
Yes. There were three forms - one for "first years", and then either an arts or a science form for "second years" or people only staying for one year. I can see that it would work for someone like Elma Conroy, who hadn't had the chance to travel abroad because of the war and its aftermath, and would only have been hanging around at home otherwise, but what a waste of time for people like Mary-Lou.

Nice little earner for Madge and Jem, though :D - and why not, if parents were willing to pay? The families of people in Mary-Lou's year thought they'd be paying for seven years at a school in Armishire, and instead ended up paying for several years in Switzerland, with all the extra travel costs, and the sports gear, and the cost of half term expeditions, not to mention the new uniform, and then paying for a year or even two at finishing school as well. I don't suppose any of them were exactly on the breadline, but that's a lot of extra expense :roll: .

_________________
We really must stop eating like this ...

Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.

http://setinthepast.wordpress.com/




Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Peggy of the Chalet School
PostPosted: 09 Jul 2017, 20:20 
Offline
Meeting the escort mistress
User avatar

Joined: 15 Jun 2017, 19:28
Posts: 30
Just re-reading this one now (trying to get through them in order, fairly certain that I won't get through all of the later Swiss ones though). Struck by Jo's selfishness that she should get to call Molly/cable Madge to let them know that Peggy has been made headgirl rather than letting Peggy tell her mother/aunt herself.

I may be in the minority but I like Peggy (girl not book) as I think that it's nice to see a fairly quiet girl in the foreground sometimes.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Peggy of the Chalet School
PostPosted: 09 Jul 2017, 21:30 
Offline
Rescued by doctors
Rescued by doctors

Joined: 19 Sep 2011, 22:32
Posts: 791
Oxfordshire Lass wrote:
Just re-reading this one now (trying to get through them in order, fairly certain that I won't get through all of the later Swiss ones though). Struck by Jo's selfishness that she should get to call Molly/cable Madge to let them know that Peggy has been made headgirl rather than letting Peggy tell her mother/aunt herself.

I may be in the minority but I like Peggy (girl not book) as I think that it's nice to see a fairly quiet girl in the foreground sometimes.


I like Peggy too.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Peggy of the Chalet School
PostPosted: 09 Jul 2017, 22:03 
Offline
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2004, 13:57
Posts: 7178
Location: Manchester
Just another thought - I like the way the whole school gets to be involved in this book, which isn't always the case. The main focus is on the prefects, but the younger Seniors get the storyline about Polly settling in and everyone preparing for the Sale, the Middles get the rather silly storyline about Regency slang (and it's nice to see Sybil being a Naughty Middle rather than being consumed with guilt about her looks and past events), and the Juniors are targeted by Eilunedd when she's whipping up feeling against Peggy. I do so wish that EBD hadn't got rid of Phil Craven, and'd let the conflict between her and Mary-Lou go all the way up the School :lol:. Some of the books only really focus on one or two groups of girls, but everyone's involved in this.

_________________
We really must stop eating like this ...

Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.

http://setinthepast.wordpress.com/




Top | End
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 70 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Board index .:|:. Slogging at Lessons :: Books .:|:. Special Sixth
It is currently 20 Sep 2017, 12:15

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group