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 Post subject: Re: Books: Changes for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2017, 16:54 
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Could be. I vaguely remember something about Paul Lucy (was there a Paul Lucy?!) being a master at someone's school.

It all changes soon anyway. Ailie's gang are in Switzerland when they're 11, and Wanda von Eschenau II and her friends are in Switzerland when they're even younger than that.

The Glendower House people must really have felt like second class citizens. No-one says that they want to go to Glendower House: everyone who's staying is disappointed that they're not going to Switzerland. Going off to a glamorous-sounding location in the Swiss Alps, with a new uniform and all the rest of it, and no rationing, must have sounded a lot more exciting than staying behind. It must have been especially hard for people like Doris whose best friends were all going.

It's all a weird blend of what would have been realistic and what wouldn't. The whole idea of suddenly moving an entire school abroad - and Miss Browne did the same thing with St Scholastika's, and I think St Hilda's had also been in Britain before moving to Switzerland - is so unlikely in itself that maybe EBD could just have suspended reality completely and said that the entire school was moving. A few minor characters could have been written out as a nod to some parents not being willing or able to send girls abroad.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: Changes for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2017, 16:58 
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Alison H wrote:
Could be. I vaguely remember something about Paul Lucy (was there a Paul Lucy?!) being a master at someone's school.


Paul Chester :)


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Changes for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2017, 17:24 
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Joyce wrote:
Honey&nuts wrote:
Miss Slater part where She's seen as this negative figure who doesn't absolutely love the Chalet School blindly, but I thought Joey's attitude towards Her was odd, She overheard part of what She was saying & rushed in saying something along the lines of, 'what's that ass Slater up to now' are the staff not allowed an opinion then or to have a life outside of the school ? for all Joey's deep understanding of girls She doesn't seem to think of another persons POV here.


Slater starts out as quite nice but she gradually is sidelined as the teacher who the non-math girls dislike. And she's told off for being biased AGAINST the Maynards. How about the massive bias being shown TOWARDS the Maynards. Maybe she was trying to balance that up? :D

Joey's attitude is understandable. She identifies so strongly with the CS that any implied criticism of it is something she takes very personally. But it also means she is incapable of understanding Slater here. But at least she talks to her like a mature adult and doesn't endorse Biddy's behaviour.


I read that scene totally differently! I read it as Joey saying "what's that ass Slater up to" as meaning "oh no, she's getting people's backs up and going about this conversation the wrong way!" Her sailing in was timely and potentially stopped a big row between the staff. I thought that (for once!) she was quite tactful and managed to see and understand Miss Slater's side of things a lot better than Biddy could.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: Changes for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2017, 17:41 
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Yes, I have always read it like that Kate.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: Changes for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 18 Aug 2017, 00:27 
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In Switzerland, it would be difficult to treat the triplets specially, because they are the *only* 10 year olds in the school. With Margia, it would be a case of going to bed with the other middles, while the triplets would be sent to bed before everyone else in the school. It would be more like the special arrangements when Robin joins the school.

The original plan was to have them live at home and be (the only) day girls, which would have helped with things like bedtimes, but would have made them stand out even more compared to the other students. But that doesn't work because of weather, so they quickly become full time boarders.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: Changes for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 18 Aug 2017, 01:04 
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Kate wrote:
I read that scene totally differently! I read it as Joey saying "what's that ass Slater up to" as meaning "oh no, she's getting people's backs up and going about this conversation the wrong way!" Her sailing in was timely and potentially stopped a big row between the staff. I thought that (for once!) she was quite tactful and managed to see and understand Miss Slater's side of things a lot better than Biddy could.


Like I said, at least she was more mature than Biddy and has a chat with Slater about her new job and what it means to her to get that position. And I agree with you that is a far more tactful and understanding way of going about it.

But in the end, Joey still says, it's a pity because I wanted us all to move to Switzerland together. Oh OK then ....

And not a single person bothers to congratulate her on getting what is clearly her dream job. Instead they tease and mock her. Which sounds like a load of jealousy :D

Alison H wrote:
The Glendower House people must really have felt like second class citizens. No-one says that they want to go to Glendower House: everyone who's staying is disappointed that they're not going to Switzerland. Going off to a glamorous-sounding location in the Swiss Alps, with a new uniform and all the rest of it, and no rationing, must have sounded a lot more exciting than staying behind. It must have been especially hard for people like Doris whose best friends were all going.


At first that would certainly be the way. And I would have loved to see a story about Doris settling and making new friends. Maybe even feeling conflicted about leaving and joining the Swiss branch.

There's a lovely fanfic somewhere about Madge visiting GH the first term and designing special activities for them to feel like they can be just as important. And Madge would naturally feel much closer to this branch than the Swiss one as she lives next door to them until the move to Australia.

But over the years as the original CS girls are phased out and new girls join who have no connection to anyone in Switzerland, GH would be just like any other boarding school and the feeling of being left behind would hopefully disappear.

Cheers,
Joyce

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 Post subject: Re: Books: Changes for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 18 Aug 2017, 11:15 
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Catherine wrote:
Alison H wrote:
Could be. I vaguely remember something about Paul Lucy (was there a Paul Lucy?!) being a master at someone's school.


Paul Chester :)


Isn't it Peter Chester and Paul Ozanne???


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Changes for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 18 Aug 2017, 12:19 
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Not sure where I got Paul Lucy from, but I think Peter Chester had a son called Paul was named after (his uncle, Peter's brother-in-law) Paul Ozanne. Not to mention Paul's sister, Pauline Ozanne. And the Chesters' daughter Beth and the Lucys' daughter Betsy, both named after Elizabeth Ozanne. I know people like to re-use family names and honour relatives by naming kids after them, but it doesn't half get confusing sometimes :lol:.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: Changes for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 18 Aug 2017, 17:47 
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Alison H wrote:
Not sure where I got Paul Lucy from, but I think Peter Chester had a son called Paul was named after (his uncle, Peter's brother-in-law) Paul Ozanne. Not to mention Paul's sister, Pauline Ozanne. And the Chesters' daughter Beth and the Lucys' daughter Betsy, both named after Elizabeth Ozanne. I know people like to re-use family names and honour relatives by naming kids after them, but it doesn't half get confusing sometimes :lol:.


Peter and Anne Chester's children are: Elizabeth, Paul, Nancy, Dickon, Robin, Barbara, Piers, and Janice. Piers dies when he is a baby. It says in Future that Paul Chester was starting as a Junior Master at Stephen's school which is probably where you got that from

Paul and Elizabeth Ozanne's children are: Michael, Billy, Nella and Vanna

Julian and Janie Lucy's children are: Julie, John, Betsy, Viola, Barnaby and Kitten. Having so many Paul's in the family is the reason why Janie says she isn't naming a child for Pauline Ozanne as a first name- it's too confusing. It is Julie's middle name instead. Julie marries a Housemaster at Barnaby's school.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: Changes for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2017, 22:19 
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A lot of this book seems like filler to me. EBD had to write it, to finish off the school year and set up the move to Switzerland, but she didn't really have much to say. All the business of choosing the tennis six, for example, just goes on much too long.

I usually skip the Cadbury's expedition on re-reading. I suppose EBD went from Hereford, which is a reasonable day trip; not so much from SW Wales.

I agree Biddy et al's behaviour towards Miss Slater wasn't nice, verging on downright rude. It didn't come across as friendly teasing, as it might have been if it had been Jo in Miss Slater's place, for example. I wonder if they'd have done it if Hilda had been there, and what Hilda would have said if they did.

Things I do like: Bride and Co, again. We see throughout the year how close the friendship between all of them is, this time with how much they'll miss Tom if she isn't with them in Switzerland.

The midnight feast. Nice to see a midnight treated in a lighthearted way for a change.

I suppose EBD had pretty much exhausted the possibilities of the island setting, and needed to move the school somewhere in order to allow for new plots, expeditions and so on. It also allowed for the return of Continental girls to the school. Although we don't have the 'cultural differences' that we had in the Tyrol years, it is something that sets the CS apart from other schools.

Realistically, of course, most parents wouldn't have been able to afford several years of Swiss schooling, with all the extra travel costs, winter sports kit, and all the rest of it, especially if they had more than one daughter. It's not like pre-war Austria, when it really was as cheap as being in the UK, and the uniform and other kit was fairly minimal. EBD makes a point of talking about the high cost of living in Switzerland. From this point on, CS World becomes increasingly detached from Real World. Not that I noticed or cared when I read the books at the proper age, of course.

Nobody mentions that Josette is also below the required age for going to Switzerland, although she does turn twelve the first term there. It would have been easier to say no-one below Lower IV, or wherever they made the cut off, and you either met the standard or you didn't.


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Changes for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2017, 20:46 
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Quote:
“It’ll rain by night,” Nancy the weatherwise remarked as she turned to look towards the west. “Look how clear-cut the hills are across the Sound. That’s a sure and certain sign of rain to come.”

“Not before time, either,” remarked her cousin, Julie Lucy, who was immediately behind with her own great chum, Madge Dawson. “If the drought doesn’t break soon, there won’t be a thing left in the garden. Even the brook is lower and the pond’s shrunk quite a foot.”

“Don’t worry,” Nancy told her. “When it comes, it’ll be a downpour. Did you see the moon last night? Tipping right down instead of up as she has been.”



This is from the chapter on the visit to the chocolate factory--the girls are on the ferry to the mainland. What I want to know is, can you really tell that rain is coming from how "clear-cut" the view in the distance is? I would have thought the view would be at least a little hazy from the humidity that usually precedes rainfall. And what does Nancy mean by "tipping right down instead of up as she has been?"


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Changes for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2017, 21:18 
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AuntieBethy wrote:
Quote:
“It’ll rain by night,” Nancy the weatherwise remarked as she turned to look towards the west. “Look how clear-cut the hills are across the Sound. That’s a sure and certain sign of rain to come.”

“Not before time, either,” remarked her cousin, Julie Lucy, who was immediately behind with her own great chum, Madge Dawson. “If the drought doesn’t break soon, there won’t be a thing left in the garden. Even the brook is lower and the pond’s shrunk quite a foot.”

“Don’t worry,” Nancy told her. “When it comes, it’ll be a downpour. Did you see the moon last night? Tipping right down instead of up as she has been.”



This is from the chapter on the visit to the chocolate factory--the girls are on the ferry to the mainland. What I want to know is, can you really tell that rain is coming from how "clear-cut" the view in the distance is? I would have thought the view would be at least a little hazy from the humidity that usually precedes rainfall. And what does Nancy mean by "tipping right down instead of up as she has been?"

No idea about the moon, but my Czech friend Maria can predict weather changes with uncanny accuracy and clear hills in the distance is definitely a sign of rain here in the CR.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: Changes for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2017, 08:23 
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No idea about the moon, but my Czech friend Maria can predict weather changes with uncanny accuracy and clear hills in the distance is definitely a sign of rain here in the CR.


Something she shares with Nell Wilson then.

I don't know how the moon can tip down. That doesn't sound at all logical.


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Changes for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2017, 09:01 
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There is quite a lot of folklore to do with the moon and the weather. I seem to remember that in one of Miss Read's Fairacre books (can't remember which one) Mrs Pringles says something like "Moon on her back, water in her lap" and predicts heavy rain. Mr Willet is very dismissive of this nonsense, before saying that any fool knows it means a high wind!

I still don't know how to do links, but if you google weather folklore you can find quite a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Changes for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2017, 09:47 
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Thanks for that, Doot - I'm always interested in folklore, though I've no idea how the moon could be said to be tipped up or down.

How To Do Links: go to the section called Miss Dene's Office (in the top part of the Board Index) and click on A Guide to Text Formatting; How to Make a Link is the sixth entry (thank you Kate for listing all those!). You do have to be careful to keep all the square brackets and forward slashes intact!


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Changes for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2017, 13:06 
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Lake District lore: "If you can see the hills, it's going to rain; if you can't see the hills it's raining"

When rain is immanent, the high fells look very clesr cut (best I can describe it) against the sky.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: Changes for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2017, 14:13 
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Yes, but folklore not science! I can't see how the moon can suddenly "tip" from one evening to the next (and back the next if it is fine? :D )

However we do know that EBD was keen on folklore so we just have to accept it.


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Changes for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2017, 14:55 
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But a lot of folklore is based on long and clear-sighted observation of the weather, in this case.

For example, people were using a potion from the foxglove to cure illnesses such as dropsy long before there was a good chemical and biological examination of the plant. See Silas Marner by George Eliot.

Most medicines of the time were based on a sound observation and long practice of herb-lore.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: Changes for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2017, 15:15 
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judithR wrote:
Lake District lore: "If you can see the hills, it's going to rain; if you can't see the hills it's raining"

When rain is immanent, the high fells look very clesr cut (best I can describe it) against the sky.


Similar in a lot of places ... where I grew up in Poole it was "If you can see the Purbecks, it's going to rain; if you can't see them it is raining"

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 Post subject: Re: Books: Changes for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2017, 15:36 
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I've been thinking about the whole concept of moving (or opening) a CS branch on the Alps and feel the business case for what they do was poor.

If you were opening somewhere like the San, what will encourage people to move to take up work with you? One thing is the presence of a good school. It would also be a draw for prospective patients being able to have their children at hand. This must have been part of the thinking behind the move and we are actually told that the School is going to the Gornetz Platz because the San is there.


That school will need to take children at all different ages particularly young ones. People are less likely to want to send 6 years old children away to school and are less likely to move 15yo from existing schools.
The school will also need to cope with children from differing educational systems and be able to cope with different kinds of exam needs (either being prepared to teach multiple-syllabuses or offering something like International Baccalaureat).
Children of patients at the San are likely to be relatively short-stay. They may only be there for a few months and there'll be a constant turnover of children. So the school will have to be good at coping with distress and disruption in children - it will need a strong pastoral side and flexible classes.

This suggests that the best business model would be a small school, with small classes, taking children of all ages. offering much individual tution and coaching.
Welsen can already provide for older girls (16+) including those taking exams. So the school doesn't need a sixth form. It does need a Kindergarten.

Yet what we get is a school that only takes 12+ and overlaps in age range with the the branch already there. It's reliant on taking pupils from itself initially (ie people have to move from England). They strip the existing school of virtually all the experienced staff instead of taking a few and recruiting others (perhaps more suitable) for the much smaller new branch, and keep strictly to the English exam system despite expecting many of their pupils to come from mainland Europe.

In a way, it was a pity that we didn't get this. It would have been a return to the much smaller, more flexible, "homely" CS of the Austrian Tyrol - and it would have made sense of all those "headline character in one book - disappear in the next" heroines!


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