Login   Register     FAQ    Members

View unanswered posts   View active topics


Board index .:|:. Slogging at Lessons :: Books .:|:. Special Sixth
It is currently 24 Sep 2017, 04:19

Forum rules


Please ensure that all posts are kept impersonal. Any posts involving an ad hominem attack will be edited or deleted. Please feel free to express your views, but expect that others may disagree with them. Please limit the use of the :oops: smiley as far as possible. Please do not PM another user to argue with them; if this happens, please can the recipient contact a mod. Language of gentlemen, chaps!



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 77 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey Goes to the Oberland
PostPosted: 28 Aug 2017, 00:00 
Offline
Promising to do better
Promising to do better

Joined: 17 Nov 2011, 02:45
Posts: 752
Caroline wrote:
JayB wrote:
The departure of the School in 1938 must have had quite an impact on the local economy around the Tiernsee, what with the people they employed and the business they did with local suppliers.

I suppose the San carried on under new management, but wouldn't have had the international staff and clientele who would have brought money in.


And with the advent of war, it's not like other employers would have taken the CS's place any time soon. Tough times indeed...


Unemployment in Austria was running at about 25% at the time of the Anschluss, and one carrot that was dangled was the creation of jobs. That did happen. First through public works and then, in 1939, by the mobilisation of civilians to serve the war effort.
The financial impact of the loss of the CS could have been quite short-lived.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey Goes to the Oberland
PostPosted: 28 Aug 2017, 02:04 
Offline
Rescued by doctors
Rescued by doctors

Joined: 30 Jan 2004, 00:07
Posts: 794
Location: Taiwan
Jennie wrote:
As for what happens these days.

One high - powered couple in London are advertising for a housekeeper to perform a multitude of tasks, working well over forty hours per week, including four hours on Saturday and the same on Sunday for £400 per week. The total time to work is actually over fifty hours per week.


By my calculation that comes a bit under minimum wage for London. If they offered 500, they'd be paying minimum wage and have room for some extra time. :shock:

The other thing that happens these days is that a lot of the jobs that were once done by live in servants are done by external employees. So instead of a nanny, you drop your kid off at daycare, and instead of a cook you eat out or order takeout, and you call an agency for a visiting housecleaner for a few days a week, or a home health care aid. But these jobs generally still pay quite badly, have few benefits, and can involve irregular hours and shift work. Labour laws and protections have certainly improved with time, but people at the lower end of the scale often can't afford to challenge their employer when the laws are broken.

_________________


Ring the bells that still can ring; Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything; That's how the light gets in
Anthem: Leonard Cohen



Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey Goes to the Oberland
PostPosted: 28 Aug 2017, 07:36 
Offline
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2004, 13:57
Posts: 7178
Location: Manchester
I think accommodation is taken into account when calculating the minimum wage, because it's a benefit in kind. Any sort of accommodation in London is so expensive these days that the rental value of even one room would probably push the wage over the minimum wage.

I always think of Switzerland as being a very wealthy country, but there was a programme on TV a few years ago about children being forced into indentured servitude - "Verkungkinder", I think - in rural areas as late as the 1960s, because of poverty, so it obviously wasn't always like that for everyone. So maybe, even for Rosli, a job with the Maynards wasn't that much of a bad bet.

_________________
We really must stop eating like this ...

Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.

http://setinthepast.wordpress.com/




Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey Goes to the Oberland
PostPosted: 28 Aug 2017, 07:45 
Offline
Promising to do better
Promising to do better
User avatar

Joined: 20 Jul 2012, 13:07
Posts: 760
Location: Fife, Scotland
This book signals a definite shift, not only in terms of plot which has been discussed (focus now on Maynard rather than the Russells) but the title is "Joey" rather than the books before which were "Jo".

I also dislike the overuse of "brats" esp when the kids aren't even being brattish. I suppose it's meant to be affectionate but unfortunately, it's just annoying. If it was a Middle caught overusing a word (as they do!) they would be sent to their dictionary to find alternative words - something EBD should've done herself I'm afraid to say.

_________________
Every life is both ordinary and extraordinary – it is the respective proportions of those two categories that make that life appear interesting or humdrum.
William Boyd//Any Human Heart


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey Goes to the Oberland
PostPosted: 28 Aug 2017, 11:43 
Offline
Finding out about the Sale
Finding out about the Sale
User avatar

Joined: 27 May 2006, 13:28
Posts: 847
Location: SE England
Quote:
the title is "Joey" rather than the books before which were "Jo".

I should think that might just be due to the way it sounds. There are a lot of 'o' sounds in this title and Joey & Co. Saying Joey rather than Jo breaks it up a bit.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey Goes to the Oberland
PostPosted: 28 Aug 2017, 12:29 
Offline
Taking the train home
Taking the train home
User avatar

Joined: 13 Aug 2009, 18:41
Posts: 2615
Location: Czech Republic and Herts UK
JayB wrote:
Quote:
the title is "Joey" rather than the books before which were "Jo".

I should think that might just be due to the way it sounds. There are a lot of 'o' sounds in this title and Joey & Co. Saying Joey rather than Jo breaks it up a bit.

Yes indeed, the rhythm would be quite wrong with Jo instead of Joey....

_________________
Cestina's dolls houses - "But there's never a rose like you..."


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey Goes to the Oberland
PostPosted: 28 Aug 2017, 12:49 
Offline
Despairing over Geometry
Despairing over Geometry
User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2012, 16:53
Posts: 2496
Location: West London Alps
But there is definitely a shift to 'Joey' as the character gets older, and I find it interesting that in Rescue she herself mentions 'Joey' as being a more affectionate form than 'Jo' when she and Phoebe are discussing how they should address each other - Madge's use of 'Joey-Baba' in the early books is probably the ultimate in this line.

I've always preferred to think of her as 'Jo' - 'Joey' sounds too child-like to me, as well as not really fitting her character, but others may not agree...


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey Goes to the Oberland
PostPosted: 28 Aug 2017, 12:51 
Offline
Promising to do better
Promising to do better
User avatar

Joined: 20 Jul 2012, 13:07
Posts: 760
Location: Fife, Scotland
cestina wrote:
JayB wrote:
Quote:
the title is "Joey" rather than the books before which were "Jo".

I should think that might just be due to the way it sounds. There are a lot of 'o' sounds in this title and Joey & Co. Saying Joey rather than Jo breaks it up a bit.

Yes indeed, the rhythm would be quite wrong with Jo instead of Joey....


It was merely an observation that Jo to the rescue (Joey to the rescue sounds quite good too) is the last "Jo" title and then it changes to "Joey".

I mean, these threads are for observations and discussions, yes? Sometimes I feel like not posting because it feels like posters take things the wrong way. Discussions can include the positive and negative. We all have different interpretations of the same book.

_________________
Every life is both ordinary and extraordinary – it is the respective proportions of those two categories that make that life appear interesting or humdrum.
William Boyd//Any Human Heart


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey Goes to the Oberland
PostPosted: 28 Aug 2017, 13:09 
Offline
Taking the train home
Taking the train home
User avatar

Joined: 13 Aug 2009, 18:41
Posts: 2615
Location: Czech Republic and Herts UK
Sorry tartan-belle, I didn't mean it nastily. I spend so much of my time changing the rhythm of sentences for a translator with whom I work, so that they flow when read out loud, that it is second nature for me now...

I get the not wanting to post thing - I feel like that about a lot of what is said about Jo/Joey who to me is one of the lynch pins of the series. She seems to be an anathema to quite a lot of people :? .

Note to grammar gurus on board: should it be "an anathema" or just "anathema"?

_________________
Cestina's dolls houses - "But there's never a rose like you..."


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey Goes to the Oberland
PostPosted: 28 Aug 2017, 14:19 
Offline
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2004, 13:57
Posts: 7178
Location: Manchester
I think it's just anathema :lol: .

I'm sure we had a discussion on the Jo/Joey thing once. She starts off being mainly referred to as Joey (even though the second book is called "Jo of the Chalet School", again possibly just because it trips off the tongue more easily than "Joey of" would), but, by the time she's Head Girl, she's usually Jo. She's then usually Jo all through her 20s - "Jo to the Rescue" and "Joey to the Rescue" both sound OK to me, but the title chosen was "Jo to" - but then it switches back to Joey.

Jackie Bettany, when he gets to his teens, insists on being called "Jack", because he thinks it sounds more grown-up (and Nicky Tilsley in Coronation Street became "Nick" at a similar age :D ), and Antonia Forest readers often make a lot of Karen's husband calling her "Katie" when everyone else calls her "Kay". Having said which, I know loads of people who are known as Jimmy, Katie, Kathie, Charlie, Susie etc and are years older than Joey was at this point ... but I can't think of anyone who went from Joey to Jo and then back to Joey again. It's interesting how that happens.

I prefer Jo, but I think that's probably because Joey as a girl's name is now unusual (I'm sure Joey of the CBB won't mind my saying that, because she's Jo in real life :D ). Josephine, Joanne and Joanna are generally shorted to Jo, and Joey only tends to be used as a short for Joseph.

_________________
We really must stop eating like this ...

Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.

http://setinthepast.wordpress.com/




Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey Goes to the Oberland
PostPosted: 28 Aug 2017, 14:32 
Offline
Having Miss Ferrars as Form Mistress
Having Miss Ferrars as Form Mistress
User avatar

Joined: 01 Jul 2006, 15:44
Posts: 446
Location: North Lanarkshire, Scotland
Jo tells Phoebe in Rescue to call her Jo, "or Joey if you're feeling extra affectionate", which is how I've always looked at the distinction, as it's obviously how EBD viewed it. I prefer Jo to Joey though.

_________________
'We command the power of the elements. Storm, Earth and Fire! I'd never dress like an oversized chicken and shoot moon beams from the sky' - Stormcaller Jalara


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey Goes to the Oberland
PostPosted: 28 Aug 2017, 15:38 
Offline
Being told to stand on your own two feet
Being told to stand on your own two feet
User avatar

Joined: 04 Jan 2012, 06:47
Posts: 150
Location: North Carolina, USA
Terrygo wrote:
I think EBD didn't know what else to do with a grown up Robin, I've always wondered just why she couldn't get married? Poor health doesn't stop people and by all accounts, by the time she is 26 she seems pretty sturdy.I've no idea but surely being a nun is not something for those in poor health either?


I don't object to Robin becoming a nun, and I think she's suited to it temperamentally if nothing else, but the argument she's not healthy enough for marriage doesn't make sense to me. Phoebe in "Jo to the Rescue" is arguably frailer/more delicate than Robin, but no one questions whether she can handle marriage and later motherhood. Robin herself seems quite healthy as a teen and young adult, serving as head girl, going on ski trips and even to India. Surely she's fitter than Phoebe? Isn't her constitution relatively sound? This is one scenario in which a character could logically ask, "Why doesn't Robin marry a doctor?"

_________________
"I -- I didn't think!" -- Carola Johnstone


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey Goes to the Oberland
PostPosted: 28 Aug 2017, 16:12 
Offline
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2004, 13:57
Posts: 7178
Location: Manchester
I think the concern was the idea that susceptibility to TB could be hereditary, which also comes up in the EJO Swiss books. However, the couple in the EJO Swiss books are told by doctors to go ahead and marry and start a family, and no similar concerns are ever raised about Gillian or Joyce or any of the other girls who had a parent with TB. And Joey herself had all sorts of health issues in her younger days, and she produces 11 children!

Just thinking about Laurie and Daisy. Daisy packing in her career has been discussed a lot, but Laurie also makes a big change, giving up his hospital job and going into general practice, moving to a quiet, rural part of the country, and generally getting out of the rat race. They still have to cut their honeymoon short because his partner has some sort of family crisis, but presumably the general idea was that he'd be working more regular hours, and would be home for tea every night, and would have more time to spend with the children when they came along. Well, until he changed his mind and went to work at the San :lol:. It all ties in with the now-popular misty water coloured image of the '50s as a golden time when everyone was best mates with their neighbours, etc etc, and it's quite a contrast to what happens with a lot of CS characters.

_________________
We really must stop eating like this ...

Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.

http://setinthepast.wordpress.com/




Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey Goes to the Oberland
PostPosted: 28 Aug 2017, 16:46 
Offline
Rescued by doctors
Rescued by doctors

Joined: 19 Sep 2011, 22:32
Posts: 794
Maybe it was because we lived in a flat but I think neighbours were friendlier in my youth. My mother and fellow female neighbours called each other 'Mrs...' but they knew each other better because they were around their houses all day.

I know some of my neighbours quite well but others I never see. Although we are both retired I did not see one of my next door neighbours for three years recently.

Regarding Laurie, sometimes the reality is not as expected. He could also have joined the San as Jack and maybe Jem too were putting pressure on him - 'he had agreed at last' or similar in a Future Chalet Schoolgirl. Maybe it was also to give Daisy a chance. In one of her CS newsletters EBD says 'Daisy helped out in the Children's Ward of the San'.

Regarding Jo/Joey, I prefer Jo and it is less familiar. I do think though that latterly 'Joey' suited her better.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey Goes to the Oberland
PostPosted: 28 Aug 2017, 21:05 
Offline
Remove to Inter V
Remove to Inter V
User avatar

Joined: 24 Jul 2010, 20:24
Posts: 410
Alison H wrote:
I think it's just anathema :lol: .

I'm sure we had a discussion on the Jo/Joey thing once. She starts off being mainly referred to as Joey (even though the second book is called "Jo of the Chalet School", again possibly just because it trips off the tongue more easily than "Joey of" would), but, by the time she's Head Girl, she's usually Jo. She's then usually Jo all through her 20s - "Jo to the Rescue" and "Joey to the Rescue" both sound OK to me, but the title chosen was "Jo to" - but then it switches back to Joey.

Jackie Bettany, when he gets to his teens, insists on being called "Jack", because he thinks it sounds more grown-up (and Nicky Tilsley in Coronation Street became "Nick" at a similar age :D ), and Antonia Forest readers often make a lot of Karen's husband calling her "Katie" when everyone else calls her "Kay". Having said which, I know loads of people who are known as Jimmy, Katie, Kathie, Charlie, Susie etc and are years older than Joey was at this point ... but I can't think of anyone who went from Joey to Jo and then back to Joey again. It's interesting how that happens.

I prefer Jo, but I think that's probably because Joey as a girl's name is now unusual (I'm sure Joey of the CBB won't mind my saying that, because she's Jo in real life :D ). Josephine, Joanne and Joanna are generally shorted to Jo, and Joey only tends to be used as a short for Joseph.



I was at school with a Jo-Jo, but when I met her more recently she was going by the full form. I was quite disappointed because I'd liked the other name! But yes, Jo sounds more 'adult'. It's not that strange to me that Jo(ey) might revert, because as much as you might prefer a more grown-up version of your name, it might not be that easy to persuade your friends and family to use it, and to remember every time. (I wonder how many users of Jo-Jo remain, and how she reacts to them!)


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey Goes to the Oberland
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2017, 03:20 
Offline
Coming top in the form
Coming top in the form
User avatar

Joined: 25 Feb 2007, 15:45
Posts: 501
Location: Australia
Alison H wrote:
Jackie Bettany, when he gets to his teens, insists on being called "Jack", because he thinks it sounds more grown-up


He insists on being called John, which is his real name. And apparently his whole family has trouble remembering :D

Cheers,
Joyce

_________________
It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how - Dr Seuss


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey Goes to the Oberland
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2017, 20:08 
Offline
Playing Impertinent Questions
Playing Impertinent Questions
User avatar

Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 21:21
Posts: 590
Location: On the sofa
Antonia Forest's characters have trouble remembering that their brother hates being addressed as "Binks"!

I know a 6-year-old Josephine who is "Josie" for every day.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 77 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

Board index .:|:. Slogging at Lessons :: Books .:|:. Special Sixth
It is currently 24 Sep 2017, 04:19

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group