Login   Register     FAQ    Members

View unanswered posts   View active topics


Board index .:|:. Slogging at Lessons :: Books .:|:. Special Sixth
It is currently 24 Feb 2018, 20:55

Forum rules


Please ensure that all posts are kept impersonal. Any posts involving an ad hominem attack will be edited or deleted. Please feel free to express your views, but expect that others may disagree with them. Please limit the use of the :oops: smiley as far as possible. Please do not PM another user to argue with them; if this happens, please can the recipient contact a mod. Language of gentlemen, chaps!



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 56 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Books: Excitements at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2017, 00:25 
Offline
Sale declared Open!
Sale declared Open!

Joined: 19 Sep 2011, 22:32
Posts: 940
Fiona Mc wrote:
JayB wrote:
Quote:
The pressure put on the staff to contribute to the Chapels was very heavy. Trust Biddy to be up there with a large amount. Was she not getting married that summer? Surely she should have been contributing towards her wedding/new home?

Where did Biddy get the money to make a large donation? I don't suppose she was earning much as a governess on an Australian sheep station, or wherever it was, and she hadn't been at the CS long enough to build up a lot of savings. And yes, she did need it for her wedding dress, trousseau and so on.


Given the Chalet School educated her for free for about 8 years, housed her in the school holidays and Jem and Madge offered to pay her Oxford fees, if she didn't win the scholarship, I could see Biddy not being able to (or feeling able to) do anything less than donating to the school chapels. She did owe the school.


That's a good point, Fiona. Her husband-to-be even ends up working in the San. The school was very good to Biddy.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Excitements at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2017, 01:31 
Offline
Asked to help with the play
Asked to help with the play

Joined: 30 Jan 2004, 00:07
Posts: 881
Location: Taiwan
Regarding Yseult, I think she's an example of a girl for whom the CS *wasn't* the right choice.

She fits in really badly at the Chalet School, and is not happy. She's in a form with girls much younger than she is, and as it's a boarding school, she never gets the chance to mix with her own age group, as even things like going for walks, playing sports and relaxing in the form room are arranged by form. She's way behind in classes, and that's made a lot worse by the language issue. And she really resents the whole regimented boarding school atmosphere, with the hair in two plaits, tunic-uniform dress code, no makeup, no pop-culture, no boys CS ethos.

We hear bits of her progress after leaving the CS, and it sounds like does much, much better. At a public US high school, I could see her being put into a more vocational stream, and being with girls maybe a year younger, and dropping things like languages and science. She would be relatively free to play with fashion and artistic (or chic) hair styles, and could make friends who liked her and shared interests, rather than being tolerated by her peers, at best. She could join the drama club.

And at home, it would be a less regimented system - I can't see Cornelia demanding hospital corners on beds and rummaging through her underwear drawers to make sure they're properly arranged - and her sisters would have really needed her, which could have made a big difference. At the CS, there would be little time for the girls to even see each other.

_________________


Ring the bells that still can ring; Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything; That's how the light gets in
Anthem: Leonard Cohen



Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Excitements at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2017, 18:33 
Offline
Discovering that JMB lives next door
Discovering that JMB lives next door
User avatar

Joined: 13 May 2015, 20:15
Posts: 122
Location: Cumbria
I think Biddy offers 10% of her salary towards the chapels.Do you think EBD had in mind with that figure that the tithe to a church is 10%?
It is a lot of money and I am not surprised other staff members couldn't afford it, given that their wages probably weren't huge in the first place.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Excitements at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2017, 04:34 
Offline
Playing Impertinent Questions
Playing Impertinent Questions
User avatar

Joined: 25 Feb 2007, 15:45
Posts: 592
Location: Australia
Terrygo wrote:
I think Biddy offers 10% of her salary towards the chapels.Do you think EBD had in mind with that figure that the tithe to a church is 10%?
It is a lot of money and I am not surprised other staff members couldn't afford it, given that their wages probably weren't huge in the first place.


But when you think about it - what else does Biddy have to spend her money on? (Says me, who has no concept of what teachers have to spend their money on.)

She boards and eats for free though the term, the school pays for transport back and forth to England and she has no family obligations as Miss Moore does. So she has clothes, holidays, taxes (?) and misc to spend her money on.

I would assume that tithing was what EBD had in mind and for very religious people that is still a concept. It's supposed to be set aside first to honour God before other things are considered.

When I was a kid I went to school with the children of Salvation Army people. At the time, the Australian government would give you money for your child's education depending on income.

She constantly complained that her parents would first take a tithe for the church. Then food, board and clothes left her with about $10 pocket money a term. she always wanted that tithe back!

_________________
It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how - Dr Seuss


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Excitements at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2017, 07:43 
Offline
Asked to help with the play
Asked to help with the play

Joined: 30 Jan 2004, 00:07
Posts: 881
Location: Taiwan
It's hard to say what the salaries actually are. They get room and board, which take a good chunk of a normal salary. They would have to take care of their own accommodation during school breaks - if they didn't have convenient family to stay with, they'd need to board somewhere. Then they'd have to cover clothes, various accessories, and personal items.

They'd also need to be saving for retirement, and to build up a financial cushion in case of emergency. When Herr Laubach retires, the school has to provide him with a home and furniture because he lost everything in the war, which implies that in the intervening 15 years or so he hadn't been able to save much.

Biddy was an orphan who has only been working professionally for five years, so she can't have had much savings, and she certainly didn't have private means the way someone like Kathie Ferrars did.

_________________


Ring the bells that still can ring; Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything; That's how the light gets in
Anthem: Leonard Cohen



Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Excitements at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2017, 07:54 
Offline
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2004, 13:57
Posts: 7445
Location: Manchester
She was about to get married, and, although she carried on working for a bit, the expectation would have been that Eugen would provide for her and any future children. She didn't have to worry about saving anything out of that year's salary. I think Kathie's auntie told her to try to put 10% of her salary by, so Biddy was just donating the sort of amount she'd otherwise have saved.

To be fair to Biddy, I think she was just genuinely enthusiastic about the idea and wasn't trying to suggest that everyone else should donate 10% as well, but, once one person's said it, it does rather make other people feel obliged to match it :shock: .

_________________
We really must stop eating like this ...

Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.

http://setinthepast.wordpress.com/




Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Excitements at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2017, 09:13 
Offline
Arranging your timetable with Miss Dene
User avatar

Joined: 20 Jan 2004, 12:53
Posts: 93
Location: swansea united kingdom
Alison H wrote:
but, once one person's said it, it does rather make other people feel obliged to match it :shock: .


As Miss Annersley would have said "Sheep!!" :roll:

_________________
fio


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Excitements at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2017, 09:59 
Offline
Exams...
Exams...

Joined: 29 Aug 2004, 21:55
Posts: 342
Location: Jerusalem, Israel
Alison H wrote:
She was about to get married, and, although she carried on working for a bit, the expectation would have been that Eugen would provide for her and any future children. She didn't have to worry about saving anything out of that year's salary. I think Kathie's auntie told her to try to put 10% of her salary by, so Biddy was just donating the sort of amount she'd otherwise have saved.

To be fair to Biddy, I think she was just genuinely enthusiastic about the idea and wasn't trying to suggest that everyone else should donate 10% as well, but, once one person's said it, it does rather make other people feel obliged to match it :shock: .


Before Biddy started working for the CS, she was working as a governess to Mavis's sisters in Australia. That would have been another position where room and board were supplied, and she may have got a very gernerous salary there for all we know.

Mavis's mother wanted her to stay on, even after all the girls had gone to school, presumably as some kind of 'companion' (or replacement for Mavis), so they would seem to have had money for whatever they wanted, ang given that thaey seemed to hold Biddy in high regard, the might well have been gererous to her.

_________________
... Anna made up her mind for once and all that there must be something about the Chalet School that affected all concerned with it with mild insanity!


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Excitements at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2017, 06:26 
Offline
Playing Impertinent Questions
Playing Impertinent Questions
User avatar

Joined: 25 Feb 2007, 15:45
Posts: 592
Location: Australia
Quote:
When Herr Laubach retires, the school has to provide him with a home and furniture because he lost everything in the war, which implies that in the intervening 15 years or so he hadn't been able to save much.


He was renting so maybe it was not so much lack of money as the place was provided with the furniture he needed.

But it does sound as if he has no savings whatsoever, which makes you wonder how badly paid they are! :shock:

_________________
It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how - Dr Seuss


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Excitements at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2017, 08:11 
Offline
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2004, 13:57
Posts: 7445
Location: Manchester
Or what he'd spent all his money on in the meantime :lol: .

The Herr Laubach thing is very odd. It sounds like something out of the early days of Downton Abbey - providing almshouses for retired servants.

_________________
We really must stop eating like this ...

Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.

http://setinthepast.wordpress.com/




Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Excitements at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2017, 15:08 
Offline
Escorting the new girls to Freudesheim
Escorting the new girls to Freudesheim
User avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2004, 21:07
Posts: 3465
Location: Cambridgeshire
Does Biddy really owe the school anything?

Yes, she got a free education and housing during the holidays, and the generous offer of finance for Oxford, but she was a bright child, as they discovered, and she was hard-working. So she deserved her education.

I think EBD liked her readers to believe that everyone was grateful to the CS for the education. The truth was that the school charged whopping great fees. The Ozanne twins were kept at school so their parents didn't have to deal with them during term time.

_________________
Carpe diem, carpe noctem, carpe pecuniam et exe, celerrime.
A certain edge when she spoke of Mrs Maynard, certainly, but, after all, not everyone could love Joey.
'Life,' said Marvin, 'don't talk to me about life!'


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Excitements at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2017, 07:38 
Offline
Learning to play Lacrosse
Learning to play Lacrosse
User avatar

Joined: 02 Nov 2007, 08:12
Posts: 469
Location: London
Yes, she deserved to get a free education etc. but that only happened because the Chalet School took her in and provided it. More importantly (to me), they didn't just provide an education and free housing, they provided a home and support. Had they sponsored her to attend a local school somewhere and given her boarding with someone in the village, as happens in one of the Abbey books, you could argue it was less of a "taking her into the family." I also think staff would have been aware enough of her circumstances to understand why she wanted to (not necessarily felt she should) donate so much.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Excitements at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2017, 11:33 
Offline
Toothache!
Toothache!
User avatar

Joined: 03 Jan 2010, 22:35
Posts: 1482
Location: Berkshire, England
The intention was to send Biddy to the local school, but they changed their minds because they thought she was clever enough to benefit from a better education. Don't suppose EBD knew much about the local education system there.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Excitements at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2017, 13:14 
Offline
Arguing with your guardian

Joined: 28 Mar 2013, 22:27
Posts: 5
ivohenry wrote:
The intention was to send Biddy to the local school, but they changed their minds because they thought she was clever enough to benefit from a better education. Don't suppose EBD knew much about the local education system there.


I always wondered if the original intention was that Biddy fade away but that EDB found she either needed or liked the character and so brought her back to school properly.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Excitements at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2017, 01:11 
Offline
Playing Impertinent Questions
Playing Impertinent Questions
User avatar

Joined: 25 Feb 2007, 15:45
Posts: 592
Location: Australia
ivohenry wrote:
The intention was to send Biddy to the local school, but they changed their minds because they thought she was clever enough to benefit from a better education. Don't suppose EBD knew much about the local education system there.


She also needed Biddy in the story which would never have happened if she had gone to a village school. She would never had gone to Oxford, got a degree and gone back to the CS to teach.

I suppose she could have brought her back as a servant, but then she's not at the same 'level' as Joey.

Alison H wrote:
The Herr Laubach thing is very odd. It sounds like something out of the early days of Downton Abbey - providing almshouses for retired servants.


It is very strange. Technically, the CS owes him nothing.

Joey says was loyal to the school by rejoining them after he fled Austria.

That's garbage. He was homeless, stateless, a refugee with no family and he needed a job. He knew the school was one of the few places that would hire him with his track record of throwing things at students.

If anything, he owes the school for a) hiring him and b) not firing him every time he emotionally abused a student.

By all means, give him a 'thank God you are leaving' present but to make it sound like the school owed him anything, let alone a chalet, is absurd.

_________________
It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how - Dr Seuss


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Excitements at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2017, 10:51 
Offline
Asked to help with the play
Asked to help with the play

Joined: 30 Jan 2004, 00:07
Posts: 881
Location: Taiwan
With Biddy, she gets quite a lot from the school, particularly compared to what her life would have been like if she encountered them.

When she was found living in the games shed, the most logical thing for the school to do would have been to contact the authorities and let them deal with it - that's certainly what a modern school would do if they found a runaway on their property. In that case, she would either live at the orphanage until she aged out (probably in her mid teens) and was kicked out to work. Or she'd be taken home by someone who was in no way guaranteed to treat her well. I suspect there weren't a lot of families in pre-war Austria keen on adopting ten year old foreign children.

If the school didn't want to do that, they could have looked for a nice local family where she could have worked for her board and be treated decently, or offered her a job working at the school, helping the maids. Eigen Pfeifen, at about the same age, is employed as odd-jobs-boy at the school, after all, and is grateful for the job. Or, as they started to, they could paid to have her board with someone and attend the local school until she was old enough to get a proper job, likely at age about fourteen.

What she does get is a full scholarship at a good boarding school, housing during the holidays and the year the school is closed, full financial support for a degree of Oxford (or whatever extra money was needed if she had a scholarship) , and a good job at the school waiting for her.

_________________


Ring the bells that still can ring; Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything; That's how the light gets in
Anthem: Leonard Cohen



Top | End
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 56 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

Board index .:|:. Slogging at Lessons :: Books .:|:. Special Sixth
It is currently 24 Feb 2018, 20:55

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group