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 Post subject: Re: Books: Trials for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 23:58 
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Surely only EBD knew Carla's story? Some of the drabbles and fan fiction are brilliant but I only look on them as on a par with what I can imagine. Only what EBD wrote is 'real'.


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Trials for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2017, 00:16 
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Well, sure. It was only a suggestion.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: Trials for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2017, 02:52 
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Aquabird wrote:
Well, sure. It was only a suggestion.


:)


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Trials for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2017, 08:28 
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Audrey25 wrote:
Only what EBD wrote is 'real'.


Even the parts that contradict each other? :D


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Trials for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2017, 01:13 
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Even the parts that contradict each other! They are her characters. We can all imagine what would happen with them but she was the only one who could make it happen even although the other versions could be more accurate and much better written.


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Trials for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 27 Aug 2018, 13:20 
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Another thread brought back from the dead as I'm reading Trials right now. It's the abridged version. How much got cut out? I know Naomi is much nastier in the original version than the abridged version, and that 'she isn't a Jewess, is she?' comment from Joey got cut, as did the stuff about the Pertwees.

The religion thing doesn't bother me as much as I thought it would, and I get needing to know what faith she is for Prayers for admin purposes - say there's a fire and they have to check who's in what service. The bit that bothered me the most was the Herr Laubach incident. Yes, Naomi made a silly mistake but 1) it's an easy mistake to make, 2) Herr Laubach should have had more self-control and 3) he wasn't the victim here. Joey says she wants to smack Naomi, and is really angry with her, and I can't understand why. She didn't do anything wrong, and Joey and Herr Laubach never got on when she was at school anyway. In fact, she went out of her way to antagonise him and he was a horrible teacher. Mr Denny and Herr Anserl have short fuses, but Mr Denny does apologise when he loses it and is an extremely talented musician and composer, and Herr Anserl is great with little kids, a gentle giant out of school and helps participate in a couple of searches. Herr Laubach is just really aggressive and mean. But everyone acts like Naomi deliberately went out of her way to wind him up or something. And Mary-Lou is very mature and perceptive, but she is only a teenager and I agree that it is a bit much to dump Naomi on her - who shouldn't have gone to the CS, I agree - even if things do work out between them.

I was glad to see a callback to Spot Supper as well, and Verity is great in the bit where they're trapped in the hut. I also thought it was lovely of the older girls to help Miss Dene out with the admin - it's a reminder that the staff are only human, and they get ill too. The lost property prank was a nice touch, as was the karmic punishment dealt out by the prefects.

ETA: the bit where Cecil kicks the coffee over that woman at the panto was cut out too. And I forgot about Evvy! I liked her in the Tyrol years, and it's nice to see her back.


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Trials for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 27 Aug 2018, 20:43 
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This was butchered in the Armada version, it's definitely one I recommend tracking down in HB or GGB if you can. The flood was cut out completely, and yeah, lots of other details are omitted that really change the feel of the book. It's not quite as bad as the hack job done on Highland Twins, which IMO is the worst-cut of the series, but I think Trials has to be one of the runners up.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: Trials for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 28 Aug 2018, 05:56 
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Aquabird wrote:
It's not quite as bad as the hack job done on Highland Twins, which IMO is the worst-cut of the series, but I think Trials has to be one of the runners up.


I don't know, I think the hb of Trials changes Naomi completely as a person, which wasn't the case with Highland Twins.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: Trials for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 28 Aug 2018, 07:14 
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HT is the worst for me because my entire opinion of it totally changed when I read the uncut version, while I didn't have quite as drastic a reaction with Trials. Agree about Naomi though.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: Trials for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2018, 13:04 
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I'm so glad I got the unabridged Highland Twins, because it had the Elisaveta chapter in it, and the creepy bit with Miss Dene, and loads of other little details like the twins being good with guns.

Have GGBP done Trials? I've tried tracking it down but had limited success.


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Trials for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2018, 17:46 
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February 2017, according to their website, but it's out of print already :( .

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 Post subject: Re: Books: Trials for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2018, 00:28 
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Trials was one of the last I read and I think it is the Armada version I have so I would love to read the full book.

I am stunned at Joey's "Jewess" comment and also stunned by the fact that when Joey's terrible remarks are relayed, this is never mentioned. Probably a lot of people have only read the abridged Trials. Not the place to say any more.

I bought a hardback of Highland Twins in the sixties. Old books were still being republished regularly. The chapter about Elisaveta is 'nice' but not vital. I also think there were other bits cut but this has no doubt been mentioned.


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Trials for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2018, 07:48 
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To be fair to both EBD and Joey, I think it was just an unfortunate use of an outdated expression. I've read "Jewess" in books by Jewish authors, and the first Jewish school in Manchester was called "The Jews' School" for years - the terms would not have been offensive in EBD's youth. I think she (or Joey) was just saying that Naomi sounded like a Jewish name - which is a bizarre thing to say, because I've met lots of Naomis, some of whom are Jewish and some of whom are various other religions, and Hilda points out that she was at school with a Naomi, who was presumably Protestant. Everyone at the CS is a bit obsessed with religion, and new girls are always asked what religion they are because of the different Prayers, so I don't think it was meant in any sort of unpleasant way.

It's just a very strange and pointless remark, because, as Hilda makes clear and therefore EBD was presumably well aware, Naomi is not a specifically Jewish name.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: Trials for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2018, 09:31 
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Alison H wrote:
It's just a very strange and pointless remark, because, as Hilda makes clear and therefore EBD was presumably well aware, Naomi is not a specifically Jewish name.
And Grandma Learoyd in Gay has a sibling called Naomi. Setting up a skittle just to knock it over again (so to speak) like that makes it look to me as if the author wants to make sure that the young reader isn't confused or puzzled. I think Naomi was pretty unusual as a name in the late 1950s, when the book was published, and the 1940s, when Naomi was presumably born, though Biblical names have been in use among the gentile population ever since we got the Bible. The irony was that Biblical names, including Naomi, had a surge in popularity in the 1960s...


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Trials for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2018, 11:03 
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I think the remark might sound offensive because of the way it is worded: 'She's not a Jewess is she?' That line hopes that she is not. 'Is she a Jewess?' is more neutral. The word itself is of the time in the same way people do not say authoress or actress today.


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Trials for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2018, 11:33 
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Mel wrote:
I think the remark might sound offensive because of the way it is worded: 'She's not a Jewess is she?' That line hopes that she is not. 'Is she a Jewess?' is more neutral. The word itself is of the time in the same way people do not say authoress or actress today.


I also think it is the wording that makes it offensive.


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Trials for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2018, 13:02 
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I'm not sure - and too lazy to go and check! - of the date of Trials, but E J Oxenham's last book [Two Queens at the Abbey, 1959] has an unpleasant character called Konrad Abrahams - a distinctly creepy character with a prurient interest in young women. One of EJO's long-term readers -I'll call her RG - herself Jewish, wrote to EJO [I think they had been in correspondence anyway] and expressed dismay at the portrayal. Apparently EJO wrote back and said she hadn't intended him to be Jewish, which RG told me she had to accept at face value, but with a name like that, you wonder at the 'institutional racism' of it.

The foregoing is to set the scene, because if EBD [or her editor if she had one at this stage, or Phyllis or Stanley Matthewman] was aware of this, she may well have been deliberately protecting herself by stating that Naomi wasn't Jewish -or even of Jewish descent - so that she wasn't accused of making an unpleasant character seem to be Jewish by default.

[I'm not sure I've put all that very elegantly, but I hope the sense has come through]

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 Post subject: Re: Books: Trials for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2018, 13:32 
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I can see what you mean abbeybufo - but why call her Naomi if there was to be any confusion?


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Trials for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2018, 14:12 
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Mel wrote:
I can see what you mean abbeybufo - but why call her Naomi if there was to be any confusion?


Why indeed? Perhaps she liked the name, and it was later pointed out to her that there might be the assumption, so she added that sentence?

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 Post subject: Re: Books: Trials for the Chalet School
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2018, 14:21 
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I knew about the Konrad Abrahams affair but hadn't thought of connecting it with this, but Trials was also published in 1959. That's an interesting thought. Given Joey's friendship with the Goldmanns when she was younger, I'm sure EBD didn't mean it to come across as Joey holding any sort of prejudices, even though it's worded so poorly.

She does seem to have made it all unnecessarily complicated. There were more than enough other names she could have chosen from!

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