Login   Register     FAQ    Members

View unanswered posts   View active topics


Board index .:|:. Slogging at Lessons :: Books .:|:. Special Sixth
It is currently 20 Oct 2018, 05:22

Forum rules


Please ensure that all posts are kept impersonal. Any posts involving an ad hominem attack will be edited or deleted. Please feel free to express your views, but expect that others may disagree with them. Please limit the use of the :oops: smiley as far as possible. Please do not PM another user to argue with them; if this happens, please can the recipient contact a mod. Language of gentlemen, chaps!



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 55 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Books: Summer Term at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 27 Feb 2018, 17:40 
Offline
Being rescued by Dr Ackles
Being rescued by Dr Ackles
User avatar

Joined: 05 Feb 2005, 15:55
Posts: 2657
Location: London
The Gemma books by Noel Streatfeild seem to cross two different eras as well. I find them quite compelling.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Summer Term at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 06 Apr 2018, 10:03 
Offline
Swept off by Matey to pack
Swept off by Matey to pack

Joined: 19 Sep 2011, 22:32
Posts: 1105
I have read this book recently for the first time in years. It was maybe not quite so bad as I always imagined. Also, apart from the bit at the very end when she put people's lives at risk, Erica is a more likeable character than I had previously thought.

Obviously Erica "finding" Joey the way she did and the whole thing about Darcia wanting Joey to look after her daughter was mad but apart from, the whole book is just a series of accidents as opposed to a real storyline. It should have been called " Accidents at the Chalet School".


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Summer Term at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 06 Apr 2018, 13:00 
Offline
Stumped by Lower Four's quiz
Stumped by Lower Four's quiz
User avatar

Joined: 27 May 2006, 13:28
Posts: 998
Location: SE England
Quote:
Basically [in the Swiss books] EBD has 17/18yo girls not being allowed to take a train to the nearest city. It goes back to the very early books when 17yo Grizel attracts looks because she doesn't have a chaperone with her.

Was chaperonage for middle class Austrian girls between the wars really such a big thing as EBD makes out? In the UK, a 17yo travelling alone wouldn't have raised eyebrows c.1930. Girls that age travelled every day to school or work.

What happened in Austria when there wasn't a Tant Luise in the household to chaperone the teenage daughter wherever she needed to go?


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Summer Term at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 06 Apr 2018, 18:07 
Offline
Asked to help with the play
Asked to help with the play

Joined: 17 Nov 2011, 02:45
Posts: 890
JayB wrote:
Quote:
Basically [in the Swiss books] EBD has 17/18yo girls not being allowed to take a train to the nearest city. It goes back to the very early books when 17yo Grizel attracts looks because she doesn't have a chaperone with her.

Was chaperonage for middle class Austrian girls between the wars really such a big thing as EBD makes out? In the UK, a 17yo travelling alone wouldn't have raised eyebrows c.1930. Girls that age travelled every day to school or work.

What happened in Austria when there wasn't a Tant Luise in the household to chaperone the teenage daughter wherever she needed to go?


Couple of points

Austria was extremely poor at the time EBD was writing, and the economic effects must have been felt throughout the social scale with people in government-related employment being particularly badly hit. People with private incomes would have found them seriously eroded by inflation. In those circumstances, it is often found that people do adhere very closely to tradition and etiquette - it is the only thing that differentiates between them and the lower-classes. In fact, records of the time do show that chaperonage was alive and well (although it was certainly being challenged too!)


In the UK, people who were working at 17 would have rarely been middle-class or above and the lower socio-economic groups hadn't been chaperoned in the same way in the first place. However, it was still common for young women not to travel alone although that might be in a group with other girls (noticeably travelling to school) or for someone to be asked to keep an eye on them when travelling (a "respectable-looking" woman or family on the train, or the guard being asked to keep a "fatherly" eye on them.
Greater industrialisation in the UK and the siginificant entry of women into "male" jobs during WWI did put the boot into a lot of chaperonage in the way that did not happen in less industrialised or more agricultural countries and communities.

As for who chaperoned if there wasn't a handy Tant Luise...Apart from the fact that the death rate in WWI meant there would be a lot of "surplus" Tant Luises, there were all those Gertliebs, grateful for jobs, who would have undertaken accompanying the young ladies when they went out, along with their other myriad duties.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Summer Term at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 10 Apr 2018, 12:22 
Offline
...and Results
...and Results

Joined: 29 Aug 2004, 21:55
Posts: 364
Location: Jerusalem, Israel
And I remember one book (though I can't remember which) where Jo nad whoever she is travelling with are met at Innsbruck by the Menches, but the Maranis were not able to come because there was no one available to escort them. Jo was rather startled at the explanation, but the Menches assured that in town they could not behave as they did at the Tiernsee...

_________________
... Anna made up her mind for once and all that there must be something about the Chalet School that affected all concerned with it with mild insanity!


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Summer Term at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2018, 04:03 
Offline
Receiving support from the form
Receiving support from the form
User avatar

Joined: 25 Feb 2007, 15:45
Posts: 653
Location: Australia
JayB wrote:
Quote:
Basically [in the Swiss books] EBD has 17/18yo girls not being allowed to take a train to the nearest city. It goes back to the very early books when 17yo Grizel attracts looks because she doesn't have a chaperone with her.

Was chaperonage for middle class Austrian girls between the wars really such a big thing as EBD makes out? In the UK, a 17yo travelling alone wouldn't have raised eyebrows c.1930. Girls that age travelled every day to school or work.


But wouldn't it also have something to do with class? Grizel was described as clearly middle/upper class. A working class girl taking the train to go to work would not have attracted the same looks from people.

And the way EBD writes the passage is that Grizel's well cut features and clothes 'mark' her class even without her saying a word.

And I imagine girls of that class would also be escorted back and forth to school.

Look at Beth in the La Rochelle books where her busy father has to drive her every day to and from school so she wouldn't be 'polluted'. And this sets her apart from the working and lower class girls at her school who clearly are expected to get themselves home.

But to keep up this attitude right through the series until the 1960s, does mark it as outdated. But then, the girls don't watch tv either :-)

_________________
It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how - Dr Seuss


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Summer Term at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2018, 07:45 
Offline
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2004, 13:57
Posts: 7894
Location: Manchester
That's only Beth, though. Robin and Daisy cycle to school, and Gay, Tom, Jacynth, Rosalie etc get the train on their own, until meeting up with CS staff later on in the journey. So do Peggy & co, on the journey on which they get on the wrong train. Then things revert back to the earlier attitude in the Swiss books.

_________________
We really must stop eating like this ...

Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.

http://setinthepast.wordpress.com/




Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Summer Term at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2018, 08:05 
Offline
Getting all your textbooks for lessons
User avatar

Joined: 01 Oct 2016, 05:46
Posts: 87
Location: Australia
I know that it is required for the plot, but why would Rosalie Way's parents send her off on a train alone for her first experience of boarding school? Whoever takes her to the train station only discovers then that there is another Chalet School girl on the train. What would have happened if Tom wasn't there?

Compare that with Tom's first term at school when her mother takes her all the way to the Headmistress's study.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Summer Term at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2018, 09:25 
Offline
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2004, 13:57
Posts: 7894
Location: Manchester
Nothing to do with Summer Term, but I do like the way Mollie Bettany assures Mary Winterton that Polly and Lala won't want their mum hanging around when no-one else's parents are taking them to school. Those are different circumstances, because Polly and Lala will be travelling with the Bettanys, and they’re older than Rosalie was anyway, and there are two of them, but Mollie understands that teenage dread of parents making you look uncool in front of your friends. Compare that with Joey turning up at the school all the time, or Beth Chester being the only one who's dropped off at school when everyone else walks or gets the bus. Mollie is a very cool mum!

_________________
We really must stop eating like this ...

Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.

http://setinthepast.wordpress.com/




Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Summer Term at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2018, 10:05 
Offline
Taking Lower IV A for Prep
Taking Lower IV A for Prep
User avatar

Joined: 16 Jan 2004, 22:19
Posts: 3646
Location: Melbourne, Australia
The fact that situations changed in wartime would need to be taken into consideration and may explain some of the reduction in chaperonage (is that word? I hope so!).

_________________
The writer's credo: 'Sometimes you've got to sacrifice the things you like' (Delta Goodrem - Born To Try)


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Summer Term at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2018, 03:03 
Offline
Dashing off for your part in the play
Dashing off for your part in the play

Joined: 30 Jan 2004, 00:07
Posts: 1005
Location: Taiwan
I suspect that a lot of the Gertliebs who walked the children to school and escorted the young ladies when they went out were only in their teens themselves, but no-one was particularly concerned about protecting their delicate young lady-hood. Rosa Pfeiffen goes to work for the Russells as soon as she turns fourteen.

Robin and Daisy cycle to school together, when Robin's 15 and Daisy 13, and I think they're sometimes weekly boarders, depending on the time of the year. Peggy's 16 when she takes her siblings, and Gay and Jacynth are 14 or 15. Beth's only 11 or 12 when she goes to the school, and would have to go by herself, even in winter when it might still be fairly dark. So I can see driving her under those circumstances. I admit that dumping Rosalie straight from "petted home bird" to solo train journey was kind of mean, though.

_________________


Ring the bells that still can ring; Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything; That's how the light gets in
Anthem: Leonard Cohen



Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Summer Term at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2018, 03:40 
Offline
Receiving support from the form
Receiving support from the form
User avatar

Joined: 25 Feb 2007, 15:45
Posts: 653
Location: Australia
Alison H wrote:
That's only Beth, though. Robin and Daisy cycle to school, and Gay, Tom, Jacynth, Rosalie etc get the train on their own, until meeting up with CS staff later on in the journey. So do Peggy & co, on the journey on which they get on the wrong train.


I'm being very argumentative about this so sorry!

But isn't the point of driving Beth back and forth so she doesn't need to associate with the lower class girls she is at school with?

That's one of the reason Nan says to Janie, that that attitude makes Anne a snob.

I wish EBD had simply said that the school was too far away for Beth to walk etc but she just makes it sound as if one bus ride with the other girls will 'pollute' her.

Whereas the CS girls all come from the same 'class' so it's ok for them to associate together.

_________________
It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how - Dr Seuss


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Summer Term at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2018, 07:51 
Offline
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2004, 13:57
Posts: 7894
Location: Manchester
No, you're right - it is snobbery, on Anne's part. I meant that it wasn't about being chaperoned.

Having said all this, what constitutes a chaperone? Miss Maynard, a young single woman of 23, is allowed to escort Grizel, a young single woman of 17. Presumably the difference is that Grizel's still at school. But, in the Tyrol books, the point is made that they're abiding by local customs. Doesn't a female teacher have to sit in on Mr Denny's lessons? In Switzerland in the 1950s, ideas would have been different, and there were no locals at the school anyway.

_________________
We really must stop eating like this ...

Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.

http://setinthepast.wordpress.com/




Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Summer Term at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2018, 08:57 
Offline
Dashing off for your part in the play
Dashing off for your part in the play

Joined: 30 Jan 2004, 00:07
Posts: 1005
Location: Taiwan
I imagine Miss Maynard would fall under the same rules that would apply to governesses and the like - she's a woman who has to work to support herself, and therefore isn't the type who needs to be chaperoned.

The same would apply to Madge, who is single and 24 when she founds the school, but doesn't need a male escort.

_________________


Ring the bells that still can ring; Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything; That's how the light gets in
Anthem: Leonard Cohen



Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Books: Summer Term at the Chalet School
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2018, 08:33 
Offline
...and Results
...and Results

Joined: 29 Aug 2004, 21:55
Posts: 364
Location: Jerusalem, Israel
She doesn't need a male escort - but she does have Mademoiselle, who as an older woman fills the role of chaperone. While Madge was very much the leader, having Mademoiselle in the background gave the whole enterprise a greater air of authorirty and stability that would have been hard to establish without her, as well as providing a degree of back up and continuity when Madge got married.

_________________
... Anna made up her mind for once and all that there must be something about the Chalet School that affected all concerned with it with mild insanity!


Top | End
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 55 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

Board index .:|:. Slogging at Lessons :: Books .:|:. Special Sixth
It is currently 20 Oct 2018, 05:22

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group