Login   Register     FAQ    Members

View unanswered posts   View active topics


Board index .:|:. Slogging at Lessons :: Books .:|:. Special Sixth
It is currently 17 Dec 2018, 11:00

Forum rules


Please ensure that all posts are kept impersonal. Any posts involving an ad hominem attack will be edited or deleted. Please feel free to express your views, but expect that others may disagree with them. Please limit the use of the :oops: smiley as far as possible. Please do not PM another user to argue with them; if this happens, please can the recipient contact a mod. Language of gentlemen, chaps!



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 49 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Janie Steps In
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2018, 16:59 
Offline
Attending the Fifth Form Evening
Attending the Fifth Form Evening
User avatar

Joined: 04 Jan 2012, 06:47
Posts: 327
Location: North Carolina, USA
Dulcie is portrayed as useless and a bit dim, so I assume she's not making rolls and the Chesters can't afford to buy decent ones. Which I can understand given how many kids there are. Incidentals like that add up fast.

Speaking of Dulcie, I was annoyed that Janie wouldn't let her speak during the apples incident. EBD has Janie regret it later and it's clear she should have listened, but in the moment I thought that was really rude.

I don't blame Anne more than Peter for the Chesters' predicament. At the end of the day, they are both adults and parents and both in charge of their family situation. In fact, given EBD's predilection for authoritative doctors, I'd be surprised if Peter were caving to Anne in any way. Both of them are blind to what they are doing to Beth, and I believe Julian speaks scornfully of the Chesters' pride, not one of them over the other. We see more of Anne's views because it's more natural that Janie and Nan would interact with her rather than Peter.

_________________
"I -- I didn't think!" -- Carola Johnstone


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Janie Steps In
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2018, 23:22 
Offline
Giving a Junior an order mark
Giving a Junior an order mark
User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2012, 16:53
Posts: 3307
Location: West London Alps
In case the discussion doesn't go any further, a big thank-you to you, jennifer, for summarising these books and prompting questions about them - I know how much work detailed summaries can be. I've very much enjoyed reading these books again, and also reading the views of others.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Janie Steps In
PostPosted: 23 Jul 2018, 03:27 
Offline
Receiving support from the form
Receiving support from the form
User avatar

Joined: 25 Feb 2007, 15:45
Posts: 653
Location: Australia
Mel wrote:
I wondered about the rolls too. Perhaps the Chesters don't have a cook and have to make do with shop bought bread. (The horror!)


Yeah, I think it's meant to show the Chesters no longer have a full time cook/housekeeper who would automatically provide things like breakfast rolls and bread.

Heaven forbid that Anne (or Peter!?) put on an apron and make some rolls for the long suffering family rather than letting them eat shop bought bread.

_________________
It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how - Dr Seuss


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Janie Steps In
PostPosted: 23 Jul 2018, 19:09 
Offline
Castor Oil!
Castor Oil!
User avatar

Joined: 02 Nov 2007, 08:12
Posts: 550
Location: London
Noreen wrote:
In case the discussion doesn't go any further, a big thank-you to you, jennifer, for summarising these books and prompting questions about them - I know how much work detailed summaries can be. I've very much enjoyed reading these books again, and also reading the views of others.

Seconds this! I don't normally participate, mainly because my books are sitting in boxes half a world away, but I also follow all the threads and they have been very interesting (and comforting as a replacement for reading the actual books, particularly recently!) Thank you ! :)


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Janie Steps In
PostPosted: 23 Jul 2018, 19:17 
Offline
Declaring it to have been the best term
Declaring it to have been the best term
User avatar

Joined: 05 Oct 2004, 20:15
Posts: 1093
Location: Sadly Broke
Thirds this, I've loved reading the summaries and the following discussions even if I don't comment much. Thank you Jennifer.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Janie Steps In
PostPosted: 23 Jul 2018, 22:50 
Offline
Deciding to learn Russian
Deciding to learn Russian
User avatar

Joined: 03 Jan 2010, 22:35
Posts: 2317
Location: Berkshire, England
Me too, lots of really interesting discussions, thanks to all who have chipped in


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Janie Steps In
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2018, 04:53 
Offline
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2004, 13:57
Posts: 7972
Location: Manchester
Thanks from me too!

_________________
We really must stop eating like this ...

Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.

http://setinthepast.wordpress.com/




Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Janie Steps In
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2018, 15:15 
Offline
Discovering ink blots in your Latin prep
Discovering ink blots in your Latin prep

Joined: 30 Nov 2008, 22:28
Posts: 261
I've never read any of the La Rochelle books, but have really enjoyed following the discussions, so many thanks to all concerned.
I must say though that I'm not motivated to search out these books, Seven Scamps particularly sounds dreadful!
I'll stick to the CS....


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Janie Steps In
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2018, 19:07 
Offline
Taking Lower IV A for Prep
Taking Lower IV A for Prep
User avatar

Joined: 16 Jan 2004, 22:19
Posts: 3657
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Joyce wrote:
Mel wrote:
I wondered about the rolls too. Perhaps the Chesters don't have a cook and have to make do with shop bought bread. (The horror!)


Yeah, I think it's meant to show the Chesters no longer have a full time cook/housekeeper who would automatically provide things like breakfast rolls and bread.

Heaven forbid that Anne (or Peter!?) put on an apron and make some rolls for the long suffering family rather than letting them eat shop bought bread.


Alternatively Anne could have made the rolls, but she's unlikely to bring out warm rolls during the meal when she will be needed at the table to keep an eye on the children.

_________________
The writer's credo: 'Sometimes you've got to sacrifice the things you like' (Delta Goodrem - Born To Try)


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Janie Steps In
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2018, 02:22 
Offline
Dashing off for your part in the play
Dashing off for your part in the play

Joined: 30 Jan 2004, 00:07
Posts: 1014
Location: Taiwan
Yeah, if you're looking after six kids, including four year old twins and an ill baby, getting up early to prepare fresh rolls so that they can rise and bake for breakfast is the last thing you want to do. Slicing and buttering bread, making toast, pouring milk, cooking oatmeal and cleaning up would be plenty. If Anne was going to make their own bread, it'd likely be a once a week daytime affair, and would be practical loaves, not rolls.

The way the Chesters are putting off dealing with their financial situation would only make things worse in the long run. It sounds like their house is scruffy but still structurally sound - if they sold, it would be for less than they bought it, but they'd still find a buyer. Another few years without repairs, and they'd lose a lot on it, if they could find a buyer at all. Schoolwise, they've got the younger kids to think of. Will they let Janie send Nancy to a good boarding school with Julie while Beth goes to a poor local school? What about the twins? The extended family might balk at the prospect of paying for the full education of five children, even if Peter and Anne would accept it.

_________________


Ring the bells that still can ring; Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything; That's how the light gets in
Anthem: Leonard Cohen



Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Janie Steps In
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2018, 09:45 
Offline
Learning to stand on your own two feet
Learning to stand on your own two feet
User avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2004, 21:57
Posts: 662
Location: UP NORTH
The trouble with Beth's school is that it isn't a bad school at all, provides a good education, but the Chesters have a problem with it as it they don't approve of some of the pupils. Therefore Beth is made to feel an outsider by not being allowed to mix with them. Too working-class? Wrong accent? Or girls who talk about boys? Not quite Joan Bakers but the Chesters might think so. Peter and Anne are not admirable in this book.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Janie Steps In
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2018, 15:04 
Offline
Attending the Fifth Form Evening
Attending the Fifth Form Evening
User avatar

Joined: 04 Jan 2012, 06:47
Posts: 327
Location: North Carolina, USA
I can't remember Anne's exact problem with Beth's classmates. I do recall her saying she doesn't want Beth turning up her nose at Guernsey, so I imagine her classmates are keen to grow up and get out and Anne disapproves of that. It's short-sighted because what are Beth's prospects in Guernsey? There can't be that many suitable jobs, and although Anne bagged an eligible husband, that's not a reliable life plan.

_________________
"I -- I didn't think!" -- Carola Johnstone


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Janie Steps In
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2018, 00:53 
Offline
Dashing off for your part in the play
Dashing off for your part in the play

Joined: 30 Jan 2004, 00:07
Posts: 1014
Location: Taiwan
Re the school:

Quote:
Most of them are silly, giggling little idiots with only two ideas in their heads--boys and the Pictures! The few others are kids who want to pass exams and go to jobs away from Guernsey. Our homes are here and we adore the place. Anne doesn't want Beth to start turning up her nose at it.


The first part is very much a "not our sort of people" snobbery, (boys! movies!). The second is very much coming from a position of privilege. The Chesters waited until Peter could get a good job before even moving to Guernsey - they didn't love the place enough to move there without an income, but they begrudge the ambition for good jobs to Beth's classmates.

I wonder if they had even thought about Beth's future. Were they planning on having her marry into money the way Anne, Elizabeth and Janie did? Or were they expecting her to stay home indefinitely helping with the younger kids? If the family stayed cash-strapped, she'd eventually be looking for a good job herself, and be thinking of leaving Guernsey for it.

_________________


Ring the bells that still can ring; Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything; That's how the light gets in
Anthem: Leonard Cohen



Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Janie Steps In
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2018, 03:25 
Offline
Swept off by Matey to pack
Swept off by Matey to pack

Joined: 19 Sep 2011, 22:32
Posts: 1109
Jennifer, I am another who wishes to thank you for the work you put into the La Rochelle discussions - brilliant.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Janie Steps In
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2018, 06:18 
Offline
Arranging your timetable with Miss Dene
User avatar

Joined: 01 Oct 2016, 05:46
Posts: 106
Location: Australia
mynameisdumbnuts wrote:
although Anne bagged an eligible husband, that's not a reliable life plan.


It is in the Chalet school world!


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Janie Steps In
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2018, 06:26 
Offline
Receiving support from the form
Receiving support from the form
User avatar

Joined: 25 Feb 2007, 15:45
Posts: 653
Location: Australia
jennifer wrote:
Re the school:

Quote:
Most of them are silly, giggling little idiots with only two ideas in their heads--boys and the Pictures! The few others are kids who want to pass exams and go to jobs away from Guernsey. Our homes are here and we adore the place. Anne doesn't want Beth to start turning up her nose at it.


The first part is very much a "not our sort of people" snobbery, (boys! movies!). The second is very much coming from a position of privilege. The Chesters waited until Peter could get a good job before even moving to Guernsey - they didn't love the place enough to move there without an income, but they begrudge the ambition for good jobs to Beth's classmates.

I wonder if they had even thought about Beth's future. Were they planning on having her marry into money the way Anne, Elizabeth and Janie did? Or were they expecting her to stay home indefinitely helping with the younger kids?


And yet NONE of the younger generation of the clan end up living/working on the island after school days. They ALL move away. So it's fine for them, but not for Beth's school mates.

Basically Janie is saying that the girls are working/lower class and therefore should be happy to stay on the island not have aspirations beyond that. It's a very "stay within your class" snobby attitude.

As for Beth, ironically, looking after her younger sister is exactly what she ends up doing anyway.

Are we told if she works/goes to uni?

Because a few years after school finishes, she shows up in Switzerland as an unpaid mother's help for Joey to keep an eye on Barbara. Then she gets married. And we are told that Beth pretty much stayed home and tutored Barbara during those years.

So ... what difference did it make in the end?

_________________
It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how - Dr Seuss


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Janie Steps In
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2018, 07:45 
Offline
Castor Oil!
Castor Oil!
User avatar

Joined: 02 Nov 2007, 08:12
Posts: 550
Location: London
There's a chance that the War influenced how the story of the younger clan's life evolved. Also, is it explicitly mentioned that Beth is unpaid?


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Janie Steps In
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2018, 10:00 
Offline
Dashing off for your part in the play
Dashing off for your part in the play

Joined: 30 Jan 2004, 00:07
Posts: 1014
Location: Taiwan
I assume that Beth would get room and board and a stipend while she was at the Maynards. When she's at school, she first has ambitions to be a gardener and study at Swanley, and later changes to planning on going to Oxford. She leaves school at the end of Rosalie, which would give her about five or six years before she shows up in Switzerland. So I suppose she could have gone to Oxford for a three year degree, then returned home to tutor Beth for a few years.

The whole clan leaves Guernsey in the early days of the war, and move back sometime shortly after, but the kids all remain at boarding school. So they would only be in Guernsey in the vacations.

I suspect that Anne and Janie haven't really thought through to their children growing up, and the effects of going to boarding school off the island and university off the island, and maybe wanting careers that weren't easily found there. They love living there, and their husbands have good jobs, and they aren't really thinking beyond that, or realizing that they're expecting Beth's classmates to choose picturesque living over financial stability and good job opportunities.

_________________


Ring the bells that still can ring; Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything; That's how the light gets in
Anthem: Leonard Cohen



Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Janie Steps In
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2018, 15:41 
Offline
Attending the Fifth Form Evening
Attending the Fifth Form Evening
User avatar

Joined: 04 Jan 2012, 06:47
Posts: 327
Location: North Carolina, USA
bythebrook wrote:
mynameisdumbnuts wrote:
although Anne bagged an eligible husband, that's not a reliable life plan.


It is in the Chalet school world!


Ha! Yes, EBD certainly has a theme. :lol:

_________________
"I -- I didn't think!" -- Carola Johnstone


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Janie Steps In
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2018, 15:58 
Offline
Attending the Fifth Form Evening
Attending the Fifth Form Evening
User avatar

Joined: 04 Jan 2012, 06:47
Posts: 327
Location: North Carolina, USA
jennifer wrote:

I wonder if they had even thought about Beth's future. Were they planning on having her marry into money the way Anne, Elizabeth and Janie did? Or were they expecting her to stay home indefinitely helping with the younger kids? If the family stayed cash-strapped, she'd eventually be looking for a good job herself, and be thinking of leaving Guernsey for it.


The Chesters could have planned for Beth to follow the same route as Peggy Bettany: Come home to help mother and marry someone suitable nearby. Maybe Paul Ozanne or Julian Lucy could pick out potential suitors at their law firm. Given Barbara's precarious health, the Chesters may have assumed she needed lifelong care and wanted to position Beth to take over once the parents no longer could.

It's an awful plan. I like to think Janie and Julian would have stepped in once Beth reached age of majority and paid for her to go to university or helped her do whatever she wanted to do.

_________________
"I -- I didn't think!" -- Carola Johnstone


Top | End
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 49 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Board index .:|:. Slogging at Lessons :: Books .:|:. Special Sixth
It is currently 17 Dec 2018, 11:00

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group