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 Post subject: Re: The Trips Boarding
PostPosted: 20 Jan 2017, 16:26 
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Caroline wrote:
My problem with this area is not individuals who like or dislike Joey (or any other character), but just the sheer number of threads, often on random topics not initially connected with the Maynards, which eventually come around to criticising Joey for some reason or another. Then - as said above - all her well-known traits are racked over again...

I read them and think: "Not again! Please can we discuss (whatever topic it is) without any Joey-bashing!"

I just find it a bit of a shame.


Yes, I too have noticed that and heartily endorse your final sentences!

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 Post subject: Re: The Trips Boarding
PostPosted: 20 Jan 2017, 19:24 
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I do enjoy a bit of Joey mocking, particularly based on the rather caricatured version of the latter Swiss books but I'm actually quite fond of her.

I think the triplets benefited from their parents' decision to let them board.

Joey obviously wanted her girls to share the positive experiences she had as a school girl. I think it gives a nice balance between the freedoms of school and the inevitable child care responsibilities in the holidays, rather than them being on older sister duty 24/7

It would have been very easy to make them into mothers helpers, and it's to Jack and Joey's credit that the girls aren't, and have interests and time of their own


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 Post subject: Re: The Trips Boarding
PostPosted: 20 Jan 2017, 20:04 
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Aquabird wrote:
I like Jo at certain points in the series, and find her really irritating at others, and I suspect this may be the case for quite a few people. I like Jo as a Middle and in the war books as a young mother, but as a Senior I find her very negative - snappish, irritable, obsessive about the Robin, etc. - and post Canada she's just too over the top in general for my taste.

i'm the same, I love her as a young mum and a Middle, but not so much when she's a Senior or in the Swiss books, and I have the same problem with MLT when she's a Senior. In Three Go, however, she is absolutely delightful and makes me laugh (and EBD was, I think, really good at writing tween girls -Lavender Laughs is another example).

Also, in Joey's defence, it's Jack who babies her and insists on Not Disturbing Your Mother a lot of the time, it's not really her fault. Joey is very tough as a child, mentally if not always physically. The girl risks her life G-d knows how many times for other people, from Grizel to Maureen. I think he underestimates her. I've not read Theodora but apparently he and Miss Annersley refused to tell her about Margot - why?! She's got every right to know about her children and Miss Annersley knows Joey well enough to know that saying things like 'it was bad' will just make her worry even more.

And EBD's created a world with loads of characters in, many of whom are likeable, some of whom aren't - Daisy, Tom, Cornelia and Bride are among my favourites. Sometimes supporting characters end up becoming even more popular than the mains.
AilidhNoor wrote:
Joey obviously wanted her girls to share the positive experiences she had as a school girl. I think it gives a nice balance between the freedoms of school and the inevitable child care responsibilities in the holidays, rather than them being on older sister duty 24/7

Agreed.


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 Post subject: Re: The Trips Boarding
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2017, 01:47 
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Lotte wrote:
I've not read Theodora but apparently he and Miss Annersley refused to tell her about Margot - why?! She's got every right to know about her children and Miss Annersley knows Joey well enough to know that saying things like 'it was bad' will just make her worry even more.


Even years later we find out she apparently was never told the full story. And yes, it would drive me nuts to imagine what had happened rather than just be told.

And this is why she wasn't told at the time:

Quote:
Neither could she (Con) take the trouble to her mother as she might have done at another time. Their father had warned all three that Mamma was not to be worried. She had had quite enough already this year, what with Naomi’s accident last term and the smallpox scare this! Anything to do with Margot would certainly be a worry, so she must just keep it to herself for the present at any rate.


While I could understand the smallpox scare would be a concern as Len was in the middle of it all, the girl was whisked straight into isolation and cared for with a private nurse and it was Rosamund who we are told had a bad time not Len.

As for Naomi's accident - what did that have to do with Joey?

Whoever it was that said Jack babies Joey - yes, it does sound like it. And if Con can't go to her mother with her concerns about Margot, then why not go to her father?

Cheers,
Joyce

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 Post subject: Re: The Trips Boarding
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2017, 07:04 
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Joey had a difficult pregnancy with Geoff and Phil, but I don't understand why Hilda said that she couldn't be told anything about the Margot/Ted thing once the twins had been safely born and she (Joey) had recovered. Surely she was entitled to know.

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 Post subject: Re: The Trips Boarding
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2017, 22:43 
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Alison H wrote:
Joey had a difficult pregnancy with Geoff and Phil, but I don't understand why Hilda said that she couldn't be told anything about the Margot/Ted thing once the twins had been safely born and she (Joey) had recovered. Surely she was entitled to know.


I always thought she must have had a very long recovery after the twins were born due to her two hour faint when Mike went down the cliff side. This always gave credence to the difficult pregnancy she had with the twins. And it may mean, Hilda and Jack are even less likely to tell her after that, reasoning she still wasn't particularly strong, to have a two hour faint. By the end of the summer, when she was better, the three R's had joined the scene and everyone had moved on.

(That said, I would feel betrayed if my husband and closest friend didn't or hadn't told me, but I can understand why Jack didn't. It's hard watching a loved one being so unwell and then he had the job of trying to revive her for two hours 8 weeks later, and speaking as an ICU nurse, it is terrifying trying to revive loved ones, wondering if they are going to make it or not. So can understand why all thoughts of Margot's behaviour would have been driven out of his head so it no longer became a priority).

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 Post subject: Re: The Trips Boarding
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2017, 14:48 
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Lotte wrote:
And EBD's created a world with loads of characters in, many of whom are likeable, some of whom aren't - Daisy, Tom, Cornelia and Bride are among my favourites. Sometimes supporting characters end up becoming even more popular than the mains.


I think it's significant that many of the favourite characters are the ones who appear in a few books and then turn into occasional mentions. I think the problem most people have (well the problem I have anyway) is when characters are continuously mentioned and brought into the story when there's no need for it, and that's EBD's fault. Although we don't know that she wasn't under pressure to continuously include 'favourite' characters back then.

I was just reading Ruey and was irritated by the reason given for the decline of lacrosse - that without Mary-Lou no-one wanted to play it. :roll: It would have been much simpler to say, we couldn't get enough players for a team and after that it just got dropped. Mary-Lou didn't have to be mentioned at all!

I at first found the reason given for the triplets' boarding as a bit weak, but I suppose I can't imagine just how bad the weather would be. And I think it's realistic that the trips would want to board - they would feel left out if they were the only day girls. (In fact there's a book by Dorothea Moore called The Only Day Girl where that is exactly how the heroine feels.) Sue Mason definitely doesn't have a good time of it, although that's partly her aunt's selfishness.

As for the triplets being allowed to go home for 'cosseting' after an illness, well I find that perfectly reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: The Trips Boarding
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2017, 15:05 
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Loryat wrote:
I was just reading Ruey and was irritated by the reason given for the decline of lacrosse - that without Mary-Lou no-one wanted to play it. :roll: It would have been much simpler to say, we couldn't get enough players for a team and after that it just got dropped. Mary-Lou didn't have to be mentioned at all!
Couldn't agree more, Loryat, but then I find the lacrosse revival completely overdone, however good a game it is - I seem to remember that it’s only two years since they last played it, but it's talked of on and off for pages – and we're told that below the VIth form “the school literally bubbled”...


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 Post subject: Re: The Trips Boarding
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2017, 15:31 
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Apart from anything else, I can't think of a single mention anywhere of Mary-Lou being keen on or good at lacrosse, or any mention of Mary-Lou playing lacrosse at all! She's good at swimming but she doesn't seem to be particularly sporty otherwise.

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 Post subject: Re: The Trips Boarding
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2017, 17:51 
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I don't know when she's supposed to have played it. They weren't allowed to play until they were fifteen. ML turned fifteen the summer term before Mary Lou. She was late back at the start of the term covered by Mary Lou, and missed the last part of that term due to her accident. So she can only have played for less than one term, and would have been a very junior player. Hardly likely that she was such a key player that they couldn't carry on without her.

I bet Con got fed up with other two commiserating with her over not being picked for the match. She's obviously dying to say, 'Look, I couldn't care less, I don't want to play anyway', but is being polite about it.


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 Post subject: Re: The Trips Boarding
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2017, 19:15 
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Loryat wrote:

I at first found the reason given for the triplets' boarding as a bit weak, but I suppose I can't imagine just how bad the weather would be.

You are quite right about it being hard for us to realise how bad the weather can be in countries like Switzerland. The Czech Republic is not normally regarded as having such levels of snow as Austria and Switzerland but I have more than once experienced an overnight snowfall there that has meant I have not been able to get my doors open, or to clear a path to the gate - or indeed to open the gate if I manage to reach it.

Official roads are kept clear; residents are responsible for keeping the pavements clear in front of their houses clear and if you are elderly or infirm then you have to find someone to do it for you.

Unless Gaudenz was out early each morning ensuring a passageway for the triplets, there is no way they could have got to school...Jack wouldn't have had time each day!

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 Post subject: Re: The Trips Boarding
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2017, 23:52 
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The "excuse" of bad weather stopping people getting to school so they need to be boarders isn't just used in the Swiss books, it's used in the Welsh books so that Mary-Lou can become a boarder and, I believe, mentioned in Exile as well. It seems rather more believable as an excuse in the Swiss winter months than in English weather!


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 Post subject: Re: The Trips Boarding
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2017, 01:35 
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JayB wrote:
I don't know when she's supposed to have played it. They weren't allowed to play until they were fifteen. ML turned fifteen the summer term before Mary Lou. She was late back at the start of the term covered by Mary Lou, and missed the last part of that term due to her accident. So she can only have played for less than one term, and would have been a very junior player. Hardly likely that she was such a key player that they couldn't carry on without her.


Wow! you're right! Never really thought about that - she barely had time to play it. It seems like it was an excuse plucked out of nowhere.

And it does seem strange that they drop an entire sport for one girl - what about how the rest of the team feels? Can you imagine if you were really keen and were then told lacrosse was being dropped?

Cheers,
Joyce

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 Post subject: Re: The Trips Boarding
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2017, 10:00 
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I always felt it strange that the loss of one person would stop the school playing lacrosse,presumably they had reserves etc.
As Joyce says it's an excuse plucked out of no where,and using one of her,EBD,favourite characters.


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 Post subject: Re: The Trips Boarding
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2017, 10:11 
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cestina wrote:
Loryat wrote:

I at first found the reason given for the triplets' boarding as a bit weak, but I suppose I can't imagine just how bad the weather would be.

You are quite right about it being hard for us to realise how bad the weather can be in countries like Switzerland. The Czech Republic is not normally regarded as having such levels of snow as Austria and Switzerland but I have more than once experienced an overnight snowfall there that has meant I have not been able to get my doors open, or to clear a path to the gate - or indeed to open the gate if I manage to reach it.

Official roads are kept clear; residents are responsible for keeping the pavements clear in front of their houses clear and if you are elderly or infirm then you have to find someone to do it for you.

Unless Gaudenz was out early each morning ensuring a passageway for the triplets, there is no way they could have got to school...Jack wouldn't have had time each day!


I lived in the States for 3 years about 20 years ago and they had people regularly clearing roads and driveways of snow. The biggest issue for school children was the cold. Often their would be days off school because it was too cold for children to leave the house and wait for buses or walk to school due to the risk of frostbite. it usually got to -50 Fahrenheit, so was genuinely cold. I can easily imagine the triplets boarding and that being a very reasonable option for them and I'm sure no one would be keen for then to continually switch between being a boarder and being a day girl.

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 Post subject: Re: The Trips Boarding
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2017, 23:01 
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Quote:
And it does seem strange that they drop an entire sport for one girl - what about how the rest of the team feels? Can you imagine if you were really keen and were then told lacrosse was being dropped?

They probably just didn't have enough players to make up a team any more. And they'd need two teams really, for practice matches.

All the established players, who would have started playing when the School was at St Briavels, were leaving year by year, and I suppose not enough new players were taking it up. The school was smaller in the first few years in Switzerland; it must have been difficult to run both hockey and lacrosse. And did they do netball too?

I expect the Games Pres begged, pleaded, cajoled and threatened and eventually had to say that if no more girls came forward, they'd have to give it up.

I suppose if ML had been keen and fit, she might have chivvied all her Gang into playing, but she wasn't and didn't, and evidently none of them were keen enough to want to play without being chivvied.

In Coming of Age, they were having trouble even finding a tennis six.


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 Post subject: Re: The Trips Boarding
PostPosted: 01 Feb 2017, 15:09 
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I can see that games might occasionally go out of fashion, especially if you can't start playing it till you're fifteen. I just don't like how Mary-Lou has to be roped in...other than that, I do like the storyline. Although I've never read the full version with the long lacrosse match chapter.


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