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 Post subject: Re: Maynard kids ever fight?
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2017, 04:52 
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Alison H wrote:
It really annoys me when Cecil, who is clearly far too young to be there and whom we're told is upset because she's been made to go without her afternoon sleep, screams during the pantomime in Trials, kicks a tray and knocks hot coffee over some poor woman, and Joey acts as if it's hilarious.


Joey offloads the twins to Josette, then Cecil vanishes for half the pantomime. Joey then sends Mary Lou to fetch her and the kid wriggled and kicked out. Why JOEY could not have gone looking for her own daughter is beyond me.

And the coffee-bedewed woman says what we were all thinking:

“I’m most awfully sorry!” Mary-Lou gasped, bring her own handkerchief into play. “I didn’t know Cecil was going to kick like that, though. I do hope you aren’t scalded? Let me mop you up. I’ll run and fetch a cloth!”
The stranger glared at her. “Why couldn’t you stop her?” she snapped. “A big girl like you ought to be able to manage a baby like that, though what a child of that age is doing at a show like this is more than I can say!”

And kids do seem to run around screaming a lot these days even in supposedly quiet places like libraries. I hate it when they treat shopping centres and cafes like playgrounds and the parents do nothing to stop them.

Cheers,
Audrey25 wrote:
The boys would have been wanting to stay with friends or have friends staying with them. Stephen especially strikes me as the type to have lots of friends.


But wouldn't their friend's parents have to be willing to pay transport etc for the friend to go to Switzerland? It was an overnight journey those days. And if the friend doesn't stay for the whole holiday, then Joey needs to arrange some kind of escort to take the kid back to England.

Cheers,
Joyce

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 Post subject: Re: Maynard kids ever fight?
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2017, 11:33 
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Surely it's not just the boys who would have been bored and wanted their friends, the girls must have missed their friends also.The triplets going off to stay with adults hardly counts, even though those adults might have been fun.I cannot remember the triplets visiting their friends, nor being allowed to do things on their own, although I might be wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Maynard kids ever fight?
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2017, 22:10 
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Don't forget that the Richardson boys arrive quite a while before the end of the series, most likely because EBD realised that the boys had little companionship. Roger is sixteen, but Roddy is twelve (given as 'thirteen, or near to it as makes no matter'), which is the same age as Stephen, so that gives him company.

But not company of his own choosing, or who necessarily shares his interests. Charles is only fifteen months younger than Steve, so if all that was required was a boy of the same or near the same age as Steve, Chas fills the bill. There was a similar sort of age gap between the triplets and most of their friends, after all, and an even bigger gap between Margot and Emerence.


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 Post subject: Re: Maynard kids ever fight?
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2017, 22:53 
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Joyce wrote:
Alison H wrote:
It really annoys me when Cecil, who is clearly far too young to be there and whom we're told is upset because she's been made to go without her afternoon sleep, screams during the pantomime in Trials, kicks a tray and knocks hot coffee over some poor woman, and Joey acts as if it's hilarious.


Joey offloads the twins to Josette, then Cecil vanishes for half the pantomime. Joey then sends Mary Lou to fetch her and the kid wriggled and kicked out. Why JOEY could not have gone looking for her own daughter is beyond me.

And the coffee-bedewed woman says what we were all thinking:

“I’m most awfully sorry!” Mary-Lou gasped, bring her own handkerchief into play. “I didn’t know Cecil was going to kick like that, though. I do hope you aren’t scalded? Let me mop you up. I’ll run and fetch a cloth!”
The stranger glared at her. “Why couldn’t you stop her?” she snapped. “A big girl like you ought to be able to manage a baby like that, though what a child of that age is doing at a show like this is more than I can say!”

And kids do seem to run around screaming a lot these days even in supposedly quiet places like libraries. I hate it when they treat shopping centres and cafes like playgrounds and the parents do nothing to stop them.

Cheers,
Audrey25 wrote:
The boys would have been wanting to stay with friends or have friends staying with them. Stephen especially strikes me as the type to have lots of friends.


But wouldn't their friend's parents have to be willing to pay transport etc for the friend to go to Switzerland? It was an overnight journey those days. And if the friend doesn't stay for the whole holiday, then Joey needs to arrange some kind of escort to take the kid back to England.

Cheers,
Joyce


Although the boys might have wanted friends didn't mean they were going to get them!

In the ideal world the Maynard boys would stay with friends at the start or end of holidays with convenient escorts turning up but that would have been no different anyway. They always had to get to and fro England. I wonder who used to escort Steve and Charles in their early days before Roger Richardson turned up ?

Getting friends over would have been more difficult. Travelling one way with the Maynards and then parents conveniently on holiday near at hand? Easier to stick with the Emburys!


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 Post subject: Re: Maynard kids ever fight?
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2017, 23:48 
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It must have been strange for the boys. Joey and to some extent Jack were so involved with things at the girls' school, but we never once hear of them going to the boys' school. Presumably the boys' school would have had events that family members attended, if they were able to? It'd be nice to think that Madge and Jem or Mollie and Dick visited them sometimes and took them out for tea or whatever, but there's never any mention of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Maynard kids ever fight?
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2017, 00:10 
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Alison H wrote:
It'd be nice to think that Madge and Jem or Mollie and Dick visited them sometimes and took them out for tea or whatever, but there's never any mention of it.


Doesn't Dick go to visit David to tell him that Madge has had twins? Can't remember which book it is in, except that Sybil turns a somersault in the Head's study to celebrate. Which sounds very weird!

But hopefully that does mean Dick and Jem do stay in touch with the Maynard boys and go to visit them occasionally. But it does seem sad that for the boy's parents days etc it looks like Joey and Jack don't bother to attend.

Cheers,
Joyce

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 Post subject: Re: Maynard kids ever fight?
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2017, 11:48 
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Joyce wrote:
But hopefully that does mean Dick and Jem do stay in touch with the Maynard boys and go to visit them occasionally. But it does seem sad that for the boy's parents days etc it looks like Joey and Jack don't bother to attend.
"Don't bother to attend" is a bit uncharitable, I feel - we don't actually know that they didn't (especially when they still lived in England) but even if that were the case, I'd suggest that after the move to Switzerland the sheer cost of air travel (or length of time taken for alternatives) at that date would prevent their doing it very often. It's even mentioned in the text at least once in that exchange between Mary-Lou and Miss Annersley...


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 Post subject: Re: Maynard kids ever fight?
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2017, 12:22 
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Steve and Charles, and most of the Chalet School girls and staff, were making that return trip three times a year, though.

I'm not sure EBD ever thought that much about the boys. Stephen can only have been 7 or 8 when the Maynards moved to Switzerland: surely he wasn't expected to make the journey to school and back by himself, or to escort Charles when Charles was 7 and he was only about 10 himself, but I don't know who would have travelled with them - maybe the sort of courier that Maeve was hoping to be? - and it's never even mentioned.

David, Rix and Jackie at that age attended the Armiford/Hereford Cathedral School, close to where Madge and Jem lived. It seems sad that the Maynard boys weren't even in the same country as Jo and Jack, at such a young age :( . And such a contrast to their sisters going to school next door!

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 Post subject: Re: Maynard kids ever fight?
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2017, 12:35 
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Jack presumably had a set amount of holiday each year, and if he used it up on trips to see the boys at school he wouldn't be able to take a family holiday.

Quite likely a lot of other boys had parents who were abroad, or just lived too far away to attend matches or concerts or whatever.

Most of the girls at the CS in Switzerland wouldn't have had parents at school events. Even when it was at Plas Howell/St Briavels, most parents wouldn't have been there.

During the war, the difficulty of wartime travel (which was discouraged anyway, unless essential - 'Is Your Journey Really Necessary?').

Then at St Briavel's, because of the distance involved - it's not a day trip, unless you're already in Wales. And petrol was still rationed up to about the time the school moved to Switzerland.

Quote:
And such a contrast to their sisters going to school next door!

They might have preferred it that way - imagine the cringe making embarrassment for a thirteen or fourteen year old boy of having your mother living next door to your school and popping in at all hours.


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 Post subject: Re: Maynard kids ever fight?
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2017, 12:44 
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I'm amazed the girls didn't mind. Imagine the embarrassment of your mum turning up at school, waving a hanky that you'd forgotten :lol:. But Jack and Joey were so involved in the girls' school lives and so little involved in the boys' school lives: it's quite a contrast. With schoolfriends whose parents couldn't attend events, presumably their siblings were in the same boat.

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 Post subject: Re: Maynard kids ever fight?
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2017, 15:05 
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Lots of boarding school kids would have had parents overseas (e.g. in the forces) - surely, that was and still is one of the common reasons for children to board.

So, I'm sure there were arrangements for travel, and that the Maynard boys weren't the only ones with uncles and aunts rather than parents at school functions.

In fact, probably the Maynard girls were the unusual ones, not the boys.

Remind me, do we know if Steve et al went to the same school as Rix, David, Maurice, Jackie, Kevin and Kester?


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 Post subject: Re: Maynard kids ever fight?
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2017, 19:17 
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cestina wrote:
I think Caroline is correct in saying that the dynamic in a big family is totally different from where there are just two or three siblings.

Competition for parents' attention which one would think would be increased, is actually, I think, reduced; this competition does seem to be what leads to lots of screaming and showing off in small families. It is always very noticeable how much better behaved children are in the total absence of their parents....

I can't find any of those happenings in my Armada copy of Trials. Were they cut out of that edition? The twins seem to have been entrusted to Josette. And why not?


I was born in 1953 and my sister in 1956. We never screamed and through bitter experience we NEVER showed off. Heaven help us the once or twice we tried. People really cannot generalise about families.


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 Post subject: Re: Maynard kids ever fight?
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2017, 02:53 
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Caroline wrote:
Lots of boarding school kids would have had parents overseas (e.g. in the forces) - surely, that was and still is one of the common reasons for children to board.

So, I'm sure there were arrangements for travel, and that the Maynard boys weren't the only ones with uncles and aunts rather than parents at school functions.

In fact, probably the Maynard girls were the unusual ones, not the boys.

Remind me, do we know if Steve et al went to the same school as Rix, David, Maurice, Jackie, Kevin and Kester?


Sorry for spreeing but didn't Jackie go to Dartmouth? I seem to remember Rix and David being at Winchester but I cannot remember Stephen's public school ever being mentioned.

Stephen was only seven when he set off to prep school. Would there really have been so many pupils of such a young age going to an English prep school from the Bernese Oberland that the school would have provided an escort?

Roger Richardson offers to escort the boys back to England after a Future CS Girl which suggests to me that the family had to do this probably to London.


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 Post subject: Re: Maynard kids ever fight?
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2017, 03:38 
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Audrey25 wrote:
cestina wrote:
I think Caroline is correct in saying that the dynamic in a big family is totally different from where there are just two or three siblings.

Competition for parents' attention which one would think would be increased, is actually, I think, reduced; this competition does seem to be what leads to lots of screaming and showing off in small families. It is always very noticeable how much better behaved children are in the total absence of their parents....

I can't find any of those happenings in my Armada copy of Trials. Were they cut out of that edition? The twins seem to have been entrusted to Josette. And why not?


I was born in 1953 and my sister in 1956. We never screamed and through bitter experience we NEVER showed off. Heaven help us the once or twice we tried. People really cannot generalise about families.


I tend to agree that the dynamic in a larger family is much different than a smaller family. Yes there are still arguments between siblings, however, you can avoid family members if you want to due to the sheer volume of children if the family, that you can choose to play with some one else. And the other dynamic is you don't get much one on one time with your parents, so it's much more accepted by the kids that you won't. You turned to siblings more than parents as parents were too busy. To give perspective, I am one of 12 children and I had one on one times with my mother 5 times before the age of 18. I had one night alone with both my parents by the age of 18. The thing to remember, for me that is normal; I grew up with it. That's why adult Joey impressed me so much as she made a concious effort to spend one on one time with each of her children on a regular basis. I think the Maynard would have fought, but they also didn't spend a lot of time together as a family and one girl who went boarding school said she and her siblings got on better when the went to boarding school because they were only together during holidays, so stopped the daily bickering you get when you're together 12 months of the year.

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 Post subject: Re: Maynard kids ever fight?
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2017, 05:44 
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Noreen wrote:
Don't bother to attend" is a bit uncharitable


Sorry
:oops: But I do like to think that Jack/Dick/Jem at least made the trip over to see the boys occasionally.

Alison H wrote:
I'm amazed the girls didn't mind. Imagine the embarrassment of your mum turning up at school, waving a hanky that you'd forgotten :lol:.


I would hate it but given that Joey (yes, more bashing!) is so revered by the girls, they probably envy her. And Margot calls her a poppet for bringing them over so clearly she was OK with it.

Cheers,
Joyce

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 Post subject: Re: Maynard kids ever fight?
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2017, 20:12 
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When I first read Summer Term as a teenager, I remember thinking that some of the other girls must have thought that Erica had really landed on her feet going to live with the Maynards.

Joey was revered by the whole school. Pretty and clever Len was a popular Head Girl. Striking looking games prefect Margot would have had her own followers and Con was talented and non-intimidating. There were even a few teenage boys around.

I do think that the triplets thought their mother was the greatest and would never have minded her turning up at the school.


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 Post subject: Re: Maynard kids ever fight?
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2017, 20:31 
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Fiona Mc wrote:
Audrey25 wrote:
cestina wrote:
I think Caroline is correct in saying that the dynamic in a big family is totally different from where there are just two or three siblings.

Competition for parents' attention which one would think would be increased, is actually, I think, reduced; this competition does seem to be what leads to lots of screaming and showing off in small families. It is always very noticeable how much better behaved children are in the total absence of their parents....

I can't find any of those happenings in my Armada copy of Trials. Were they cut out of that edition? The twins seem to have been entrusted to Josette. And why not?


I was born in 1953 and my sister in 1956. We never screamed and through bitter experience we NEVER showed off. Heaven help us the once or twice we tried. People really cannot generalise about families.


I tend to agree that the dynamic in a larger family is much different than a smaller family. Yes there are still arguments between siblings, however, you can avoid family members if you want to due to the sheer volume of children if the family, that you can choose to play with some one else. And the other dynamic is you don't get much one on one time with your parents, so it's much more accepted by the kids that you won't. You turned to siblings more than parents as parents were too busy. To give perspective, I am one of 12 children and I had one on one times with my mother 5 times before the age of 18. I had one night alone with both my parents by the age of 18. The thing to remember, for me that is normal; I grew up with it. That's why adult Joey impressed me so much as she made a concious effort to spend one on one time with each of her children on a regular basis. I think the Maynard would have fought, but they also didn't spend a lot of time together as a family and one girl who went boarding school said she and her siblings got on better when the went to boarding school because they were only together during holidays, so stopped the daily bickering you get when you're together 12 months of the year.


I am sorry but I am finding some of the comnents on this thread a bit offensive. It is as bad as what EBD and Joey thought of small families. How on earth does anyone know what any other family is like? We might all have our own views about certain things but there is a time and place.


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 Post subject: Re: Maynard kids ever fight?
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2017, 08:40 
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Audrey, I never said the dynamic between siblings in a large family was better than a smaller family; different doesn't means better or worse, it simply means different. You are completely entitled to your opinion and peoples opinions will always be based on experiences that they have had. I think dynamics may vary between small and large families, but that won't mean one is better than the other, just that it is different and I explained IME why I felt it was different. In larger families, you do have more people interacting which means more people to get along with or to argue with and it depends on the family as to whether arguments occur or don't occur in big or small.

Getting back on topic, EBD does describe the Maynard's having spats and does it best in Theodora when Con and Margot have a huge spat over Margot's jealousy and says it was the worst argument they had ever had and in Joey and Co, she says after Mike had been forgiven by his parents, the family returned to it's usual happy united self, so I think it can be inferred, yes they did have arguments, but for the most part they did get along.

I do wonder with the boys and girls being at boarding schools and often they don't spend holidays together (i.e. Reunion, the summer when Margot was in Australia, and Joey & Co) if that impacted how they got along? As I said earlier I had a friend who said she got along better with her family after going to boarding school (parents included) because she saw them less and so when she did see them, she made the most of their time together. If you know you are only going to see a sibling for a couple days, a lot of people may just get along with them as it is only for a few days than they would if it was for longer. We see this in Future when Con and Mike spat over Con getting the wine exploding on her. They've spent much more time together, so may be starting to rub each other up the wrong way.

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 Post subject: Re: Maynard kids ever fight?
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2017, 12:30 
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I am sorry if you have been offended by something I said Audrey. I have no view at all on the relative "value" of large or small families. Each to his own according to circumstance or desire.

And of course all families are different; nevertheless I think there are observable patterns of behaviour in every life situation, and the dynamics of how any group operates is something that can legitimately be discussed in a friendly manner.

Back to topic - I have often wondered about how Margot's extended absence in Canada affected her relationship with Len and Con, and indeed with her other siblings.

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 Post subject: Re: Maynard kids ever fight?
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2017, 12:45 
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There's a lot of talk about "surface sophistication" (I never quite get that!) and Margot being "looser in our bunch", but I never really get the impression that Len and Con are closer to each other than either of them are to Margot. We don't, for example, see Len confiding in Con but not Margot about her issues with Reg. And the stay in Canada might have brought Margot closer to Ailie, and in particular to Josette who's a similar age, and maybe to Madge and Jem as well, but it doesn't. It's a missed opportunity in some ways, because being away from the others for over a year should surely have had a much bigger effect than it does. Maybe it was strange when the others arrived in Canada and they all met up again, but we don't see that.

I feel as if the relationship changes more when they get back, and Margot immediately pals up with Emerence. EBD isn't usually keen on exclusive best friendships and prefers girls to be part of a gang, or at least a group of three or four, but Margot and Emerence are very much BFFs.

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