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 Post subject: Real chalet school girl
PostPosted: 25 Jan 2017, 23:26 
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Does anyone else think Lucy Worsley is the perfect Chalet School girl?
I watched her this morning defending the study of history and heard echoes of EBD in her thinking and philosophy?
And being complimentary, she even looks the part? I can imagine her as one of The Gang...even possibly Mary Lou?


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 Post subject: Re: Real chalet school girl
PostPosted: 25 Jan 2017, 23:42 
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Ye gods no, not in my book anyway. She drives me round the bend with her look at me I am such a clever little girl act.

Ooops I think you have hit a sore spot! Sorry....

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 Post subject: Re: Real chalet school girl
PostPosted: 26 Jan 2017, 08:47 
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That woman annoys me so much! I normally watch any historical programme going, but she puts me right off, even though her knowledge of her subject is very impressive.

But, yes, I think she'd fit right in with Mary-Lou's gang! And the sheets and pillowcases parties would be right up her street.

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 Post subject: Re: Real chalet school girl
PostPosted: 26 Jan 2017, 14:50 
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Haha I think I'm with Cestina and Alison, I find her slightly annoying.

She does have a bit of a CS vibe to her though - or at least I could see a character from the CS growing up to be her.


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 Post subject: Re: Real chalet school girl
PostPosted: 26 Jan 2017, 15:31 
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I agree with Cestina, Alison and Loryat. She is very irritating and we never watch any of her programmes.


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 Post subject: Re: Real chalet school girl
PostPosted: 26 Jan 2017, 15:32 
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I see her more as the reformed Stacey Benson myself.

I have a very soft spot for Lucy Worsley and her hair clips :D


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 Post subject: Re: Real chalet school girl
PostPosted: 26 Jan 2017, 15:43 
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I must say I'm with Alison, Cestina, Jennifer and Loryat on this one. I watched the first episode of Six Wives on Sunday night. While I enjoyed the content, and will probably watch more, I found Lucy Worsley's presentation style very irritating when I had to actually watch her - she was much better as the narrative voice off-stage. There's no denying her knowledge is impressive, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Real chalet school girl
PostPosted: 26 Jan 2017, 20:50 
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Lucy Worsley could never be a real Chalet School girl! She has chosen NOT to have any children, never mind a long family.


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 Post subject: Re: Real chalet school girl
PostPosted: 26 Jan 2017, 22:37 
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Because a woman makes a choice not to have children she can't be an old girl... right ok... Robin, Margot, Stacie, spring to mind immediately.

I can't stand Lucy Woseley. She might have the knowledge but she comes across as a 9 year old!

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 Post subject: Re: Real chalet school girl
PostPosted: 27 Jan 2017, 00:00 
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I like her, I find Her very engaging. She has a very Jolly Hockey Sticks persona , so very GO ! I can see her as a chaletian or one of St. Clare's or Mallory Towers alumni.


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 Post subject: Re: Real chalet school girl
PostPosted: 27 Jan 2017, 00:51 
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I think her position would certainly fit the aspirations of some CS girls! I also rather like it when she shows the excitement of a 9-year-old instead of that jaded ennui of some presenters. But then, I also enjoy Attenborough flinging himself down to get closer to a plant. (Please don't tell me that "boyish enthusiasm" is fine, but that the equivalent in women makes them look frivolous or unprofessional.)

Some of the byplay I do find irritating, but would blame the writers and what their bosses think the public wants rather than the presenter. Also too many views of walking on those ten inch red shoes in the Russian series, along with too much film spent photographing passing asphalt. On the other hand, I tend to give Worsely the credit for the details that, for me, bring history (or other fields) to life.

Note: I'm sure I haven't seen as much of her as people in the UK -- none of Six Wives, so far. I'm also rather curious as to how you'd define her accent compared to this mysterious "RP" the CS girls are said to emulate.

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 Post subject: Re: Real chalet school girl
PostPosted: 27 Jan 2017, 09:50 
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Kathy_S wrote:
Note: I'm sure I haven't seen as much of her as people in the UK -- none of Six Wives, so far. I'm also rather curious as to how you'd define her accent compared to this mysterious "RP" the CS girls are said to emulate.


RP?

I just recall Biddy, Highland Twins being told off for their accents and told to speak "good English" which I always found a tad infuriating. Yet we never hear of Emergence having a problem and presumably she had an Aussie accent.

And yes, to Lucy. She definitely has an "always a Chalet girl" vibe to her. :D

Cheers,
Joyce

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 Post subject: Re: Real chalet school girl
PostPosted: 27 Jan 2017, 10:10 
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RP= Received Pronunciation. This excerpt from the BBC webpages is a fairly good explanation:
Quote:
Received Pronunciation, often abbreviated to RP, is an accent of spoken English. Unlike other UK accents, it's identified not so much with a particular region as with a particular social group, although it has connections with the accent of Southern England. RP is associated with educated speakers and formal speech. It has connotations of prestige and authority, but also of privilege and arrogance. Some people even think that the name 'Received Pronunciation' is a problem - if only some accents or pronunciations are 'received', then the implication is that others should be rejected or refused.When writing his pronouncing dictionary in 1916, phonetician Daniel Jones described RP as the accent "most usually heard in everyday speech in the families of Southern English persons whose menfolk have been educated at the great public boarding schools". Although this description would raise a few eyebrows today, RP is still the accent generally represented in dictionaries which give pronunciations, and it's also used as a model for the teaching of English as a foreign language. Perhaps for this reason, RP is often thought of as an unchanging accent; a standard against which other accents can be measured or judged. Some people don't even think of it as an accent at all, but rather a way of speaking without an accent. Speaking without an accent, though, would be like painting without a colour! In fact, there is considerable variation within groups of people who are said to speak RP, the term is differently interpreted by different people, and RP itself has changed considerably over time.


Emerence's accent is commented on in Shocks, but to the effect that she sounds mildly Cockney, which I've heard before but think is indicative of someone familiar with neither Aussie accents nor Cockney ones!


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 Post subject: Re: Real chalet school girl
PostPosted: 27 Jan 2017, 10:28 
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We're told that Emerence had a Cockney accent, as Noreen said, which I definitely find a bit odd. Aussie accents sound nothing like Cockney to me, and, even if they did, why would you use a term associated with the East End of London in connection with Australia?!

RP - received pronunciation. The Queen and Prince Charles are probably good examples now, but even they don't speak quite the way that 1950s BBC reporters did. Lucy Worsley's way of speaking isn't as posh as traditional RP, but attitudes changed in the 1960s and that very posh way of speaking is not as common amongst people younger than the CS generations: even Princes William and Harry don't speak what I would think of as RP.

There is a lot of confusion between accents, dialect and "good English": GO books often take the view that they're all part of the same thing. I speak with a regional accent, as do most people, and I sometimes use dialect words, but that doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with my grammar or syntax, or that I don't "speak nicely" :lol:. Attitudes were different in CS times: we're told that Ros Lilley "spoke nicely", and it wouldn't have been uncommon then for aspirational parents to try to discourage children from speaking with a regional accent, or even to send them to elocution lessons. Now, there's much more of an "I am what I am" idea, and I think that a lot of us see our accents as part of who we are, because it means that people can tell where we're from :D . Times change!

I do wonder if other countries have all these issues! I know Cristiano Ronaldo was teased and even bullied when he moved from Madeira to Lisbon, because apparently speaking with a Madeiran accent is seen in mainland Portugal as a sign of being a yokel and rather stupid. And GO books often speak about "Parisian French" as if using Occitan words or speaking with a Normandy accent or whatever is somehow inferior to that, and I gather that Tuscan is seen as being the most upmarket form of Italian. And the CS books make a lot of reference to Low German, "patois" and Schwyzerdutsch, and it's always the lower-classes who speak "Low German". But I don't know how much the idea of "RP" exists in other languages.

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 Post subject: Re: Real chalet school girl
PostPosted: 27 Jan 2017, 10:57 
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Not sure what defines Southern England as an accent. I used to work with a man who was Sussex born and bred, lovely old country accent but I can't see it going down well with the CS authorities. Similarly the actor Mackenzie Crook has a Kent accent, not exactly RP. And isn't there authorial approval for Rosamund Lilley losing her Hampshire accent? Again, southern England.

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 Post subject: Re: Real chalet school girl
PostPosted: 27 Jan 2017, 13:09 
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I wouldn't say that the senior royals speak RP as they have their own (annoying) way of speaking. Good actors are a better example - Judi Dench for instance or Benedict Cumberbatch speak RP generally though can speak with regional accents if parts demand it. Ros Lilley did lose her Hampshire accent which is not surprising as people tend to pick up and copy what they hear. Also her grammar improved for the same reason 'Can I have a lend of..' Most people as Alison says have regional accents such as slightly Northern or slightly Southern. I love accents and at school my friends and I would have fun trying them out during dull needlework lessons when we were allowed to talk.


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 Post subject: Re: Real chalet school girl
PostPosted: 27 Jan 2017, 14:32 
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I have to say absolutely hate the way they go on in the CS about accents and I love the fact that Biddy was allowed to keep hers to a certain extent. Even as a child I found it infuriating. Also, as a child, I literally didn't understand what Rosamund had said that was incorrect. I wonder how EBD thought her working-class fans would feel (she must have known she had them).

I think LW sounds exactly like a CS girl would, although I have only watched one programme of hers - she annoyed me too much for me to watch any more.

I really hope she is not on here as a CBBer...


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 Post subject: Re: Real chalet school girl
PostPosted: 27 Jan 2017, 20:19 
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Lucy Worsley is a good historian - shame about the propensity to dress up. She also joins a list of historians unable to pronounce the letter 'r'..........
Bet she would give Mary-Lou a run for her money though

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 Post subject: Re: Real chalet school girl
PostPosted: 27 Jan 2017, 21:00 
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I am thoroughly disconcerted by the idea that Lucy Worsley is remotely like any CS girl. I would run a mile from the books were I to believe that.....

It's fascinating how differently we must envisage the characters!

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 Post subject: Re: Real chalet school girl
PostPosted: 28 Jan 2017, 02:16 
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As a native English speaker who is not from the UK, my shorthand description of RP would be "That posh British accent". And that would generally get the meaning across.

I also find issues over accents and dialects quite interesting, particularly when it comes to class. There are also practical issues - a strong accent can be perfectly acceptable inside a particular region, but nearly incomprehensible outside, so deciding that any accent is perfectly acceptable doesn't necessarily work if you want to move, or communicate with people outside a particular region. And if a dialect or accent comes across as uneducated, it's can be a difficult choice - stick with it, knowing it will go against you professionally, or adopt a more common dialect and accent professionally.

I know there are accent issues with Spanish (Spain vs Central vs South America), but not the details.

One thing I find amusing is that when you start interacting with non-native speakers a lot of the accent information becomes irrelevant. My husband and I were watching a James Bond movie once. There were American, Russian and British characters, each identified by their accent in English. But my husband, a fluent non-native speaker, didn't pick up on that at all, which made the movie harder to follow.

And yes, I'll say that there are multiple correct, non-regional English accents. My accent is a fairly neutral North American one that would be considered relatively non-regional and educated, but is nowhere near RP.

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