Login   Register     FAQ    Members

View unanswered posts   View active topics


Board index .:|:. Slogging at Lessons :: Books .:|:. Lemon Biscuits & Liberty Bodices
It is currently 23 Mar 2017, 19:09



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Anne Seymour
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2017, 13:44 
Offline
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2004, 13:57
Posts: 7652
Location: Manchester
I'm just planning a very short drabble about Anne Seymour, and wondered what other people thought about her losing the Head Girl job. Anne was supposed to be taking over as Head Girl when Joey left - although this isn't mentioned until Jo Returns, so it's not clear whether it was common knowledge or just something Anne herself had been told. I think part of the argument for Grizel not losing the job after running off to Schaffhausen was that everyone already knew that she was the new HG so it'd be humiliating for her if someone else were to be appointed instead, so it sounds as if it was announced in advance at that time (it was different with Joey as Mary had to leave unexpectedly).

Just before the end of term, she climbed on to a dangerous part of a mountain, to dry to dip the flowers she'd picked in water to keep them fresh, slipped (new shoes are mentioned), and had to be rescued. During the rescue (by girls and staff, no doctors!), Con Stewart pulled a muscle, but it's never mentioned again so it can't have been very serious. As a result, Anne was demoted to Second Prefect and Louise Redfield became HG instead.

She was silly and careless, but it was an accident. There's no suggestion that she's ever been in any sort of trouble before (apart from having a row with Joey - was that what EBD was really punishing her for?). It seems like a minor offence compared with some of the things that Juliet, Grizel and Joey had done. Juliet had reformed well before she became HG, but Joey was putting cornflour in people's hair when she was a sub-prefect! Did Grizel get away with it because the Schaffhausen incident was out of school and easy to hush up? Or was it that there was no suitable alternative to either her or Joey, whereas they could easily choose Louise to replace Anne?

I feel like Anne gets a raw deal and other people get away with doing far worse. Or did she deserve it, given that this happened just before she was due to take over? Or did EBD just not like her?

_________________
We really must stop eating like this ...

Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.

http://setinthepast.wordpress.com/




Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anne Seymour
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2017, 14:51 
Offline
Going to tea at Freudesheim
Going to tea at Freudesheim

Joined: 29 May 2009, 18:01
Posts: 141
Location: North west Germany
That one incident does seem like a small reason for her not being Head Girl. On the other hand she forgets the iron and sets fire to the hall later on. So perhaps it was a wise decision! :lol:


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anne Seymour
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2017, 14:56 
Offline
Spending time in the san
Spending time in the san
User avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006, 17:54
Posts: 498
In New House, EBD says that Anne expects to be Games Prefect next term. In Jo Returns, Anne was apparently expecting to be Head Girl. I think EBD forgot what she'd said about Anne being Games Pre, and decided to stick in a Victorian-style morality lesson there. It always infuriates me.

As a kid the impression I always had was that Anne was a bit of a lightweight - possibly a bit superficial. Re-reading as an adult I don't get that impression at all - Anne seems like a genuinely nice character.

I think in real life, Anne's silly behaviour on the mountain probably would rule her out of being HG the next term, but since there's a total EBDism over this issue I don't really think we can make too much of the fact that Anne isn't made HG, or what EBD thought about Anne - I think in reality she didn't have strong feelings about Anne's character either way, which is why she forgot what she was doing with her!


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anne Seymour
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2017, 15:40 
Offline
Coming top in the form
Coming top in the form
User avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2004, 21:57
Posts: 500
Location: UP NORTH
Poor Anne not only gives up the glacier trip in Eustacia - so that Jo can go - but then she is blamed for allowing Robin to stay up! And in many other books the sub-prefects do not have to treat the HG with reverence. (After the row Frieda suggests that Anne should beg Jo's pardon as it was not the way a sub should speak to the HG. Yes I do think she gets a raw deal.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anne Seymour
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2017, 16:26 
Offline
Receiving support from the form
Receiving support from the form
User avatar

Joined: 27 May 2006, 13:28
Posts: 651
Location: SE England
Yes, I do think Anne was in the right in the argument with Jo. It's not as if it was during a prefects' meeting, or some other time when Jo was acting in her capacity as HG, or in front of the younger girls. Anne and others wanted to work, and Jo was preventing them.

Jo had a history of being a nuisance when other people were trying to work; she'd been thrown out of both maths and art. Wasn't art Anne's subject? I'm not surprised she was fed up.

And it was all right for Jo, she was only going home to the Sonnalpe. But some of those other girls were going on to college or university, and would have to earn their own livings; their work mattered.

Quote:
As a kid the impression I always had was that Anne was a bit of a lightweight - possibly a bit superficial.

Is that due to EBD always referring to her as 'pretty Anne Seymour'? (It's because of Anne that when I was primary school age, it took me quite a long time to get it fixed in my head that the third wife was Jane Seymour.)


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anne Seymour
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2017, 19:31 
Offline
Finding out about the Sale
Finding out about the Sale

Joined: 17 Nov 2011, 02:45
Posts: 837
The flower and iron incidents might be seen as indications that Anne is thoughtless, and thoughtlessness is not necessarily a good trait for a HG. But if she was habitually thoughtless, you wouldn't have expected her to be in the running for HG in the first place.


There is a problem that human beings tend to remember unusual and recent actions, and judge people accordingly. To younger members of the school at the beginning of term when the HG is announced, what they would have remembered was the hall fire. The train-missing incident in Bride is an example of what might happen. A perfectly reasonable error is made but the thoughtless can interpret it in other ways. Like Caesar's wife, the HG must be seen to be above suspicion. Grizel was - because what happened was out of term time. Anne was not. Not appointing Anne as HG is pragmatic if hypocritcal

I do think Anne got a bit a raw deal from EBD in that she was a perfectly nice, pleasant girl and she seems to have been picked on for no real reason. She isn't a particularly outstanding or interesting character but then neither were Mary Burnett or Louise Redfield (Redmond? Sorry, I'm not getting out of bed to check!). In RL the keen student who tows the school line is the person chosen as HG.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anne Seymour
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2017, 20:48 
Offline
Discovering you have to be trilingual

Joined: 20 Nov 2014, 13:07
Posts: 58
I always liked Anne - her father had a hotel (as did mine) and she was not embarrassed by the fact. I don't quite know when Louise showed herself as in any way standing out from the rank and file, but suddenly she is Head Girl.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anne Seymour
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2017, 01:13 
Offline
Somehow making an enemy
Somehow making an enemy
User avatar

Joined: 25 Feb 2007, 15:45
Posts: 240
Location: Australia
And Anne kind of vanishes doesn't she? She doesn't stay close to the school and isn't one of those girls who we are given regular updates on their lives/families.

Cheers,
Joyce

_________________
It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how - Dr Seuss


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anne Seymour
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2017, 10:35 
Offline
Receiving support from the form
Receiving support from the form

Joined: 30 Jan 2004, 00:07
Posts: 646
Location: Taiwan
There's one reference a few years later about Anne being in the WRNS, but that's it. We get updates on Louise, though, through the series.

For the demotion, I think I'd have to go with punishing Anne for daring to talk back to Joey.

I agree with others that Anne speaking sharply to Joey was perfectly reasonable - they're supposed to be studying for exams, and for some of the girls the results matter, and Joey is being an immature nuisance. Yes, Joey is sensitive about the fact that she doesn't have exciting plans after leaving school, but it's also true that she doesn't have to perform well academically and other girls do. And I don't think Joey would have been thrilled to be told that she had to study hard and get good grades so she could train for a job to support herself!

I also agree that Anne's demotion was unusually harsh given the CS's track record for second chances and Head Girls. Grizel isn't demoted after the Falls incident and Joey is engaging in prank wars with the middles while a prefect.

I think there are two Tyrol era incidents which I think could warrant a prefect demotion, or suspension. One is Deira's deliberate destruction of Grizel's property as a form of vengeance. The other is Joey getting permanently kicked out of Art class for deliberate bad behaviour. That's so completely out of line for someone in her position, and such a bad example for younger students, that firing her as Head Girl would be a reasonable response.

_________________


Ring the bells that still can ring; Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything; That's how the light gets in
Anthem: Leonard Cohen



Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anne Seymour
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2017, 20:21 
Offline
Indulging in a midnight feast
Indulging in a midnight feast

Joined: 19 Sep 2011, 22:32
Posts: 534
Never thought about this before but Joey should have been demoted. What rather surprises me is that I thought everything was much stricter in those times.

The daughter of an old work colleague of mine was recently demoted from being a house captain in her school as she had taken two or three days off. One was her school dance day (or the day after) and the other one or two days were for a concert.

Now this being the Scottish education system she already has all her qualifications for uni. She is also doing her Duke of Edinburgh BUT she chose to go back to school for that final year and should be setting a perfect example.

Were any CS prefects demoted? That would have been a very interesting storyline.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anne Seymour
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2017, 20:57 
Offline
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2004, 13:57
Posts: 7652
Location: Manchester
Hilda Jukes was told that she was too irresponsible to be considered for a prefectship because she accidentally injured Nina Rutherford during a game of leapfrog organised by a mistress during a Games lesson. And Nina wasn't positioned properly because she hadn't played the game before. Some girls didn't half get a raw deal!

I don't think any CS prefects were demoted. Didn't Darrell in Malory Towers get demoted .... I think lower down the school when she was form prefect, but it's a while since I read them? Peggy and Dickie going out in a severe gale was arguably as silly as Anne climbing over a cliff.

_________________
We really must stop eating like this ...

Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.

http://setinthepast.wordpress.com/




Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anne Seymour
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2017, 21:13 
Offline
Being rude to your sheepdog
User avatar

Joined: 07 Oct 2004, 12:14
Posts: 44
Location: Brisbane
Alison H wrote:
Hilda Jukes was told that she was too irresponsible to be considered for a prefectship because she accidentally injured Nina Rutherford during a game of leapfrog organised by a mistress during a Games lesson. And Nina wasn't positioned properly because she hadn't played the game before. Some girls didn't half get a raw deal!

I don't think any CS prefects were demoted. Didn't Darrell in Malory Towers get demoted .... I think lower down the school when she was form prefect, but it's a while since I read them? Peggy and Dickie going out in a severe gale was arguably as silly as Anne climbing over a cliff.


Yes, Darrell got demoted from being Form Prefect for a while in the Fourth Form, when she was caught shaking June (Alicia's annoying cousin).

I always felt sorry for Hilda in that scene with Nina. She didn't mean any harm, and was just playing the game. The fact that Nina didn't understand the game at all wasn't Hilda's fault - but then that seems to be a running theme, its a bit like Betty being at fault for getting hit by a flying bookend, or Jane being told off when she got attacked by Jack for cleaning Miss Ferrar's car.
There really are so many instances in the books where you get punished for just obeying the rules and/or the mistresses, its quite worrying!

_________________

'Well,call me Aunt Fanny on my tombstone!'

Rosalie in 'Theodora...'


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anne Seymour
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2017, 01:33 
Offline
Somehow making an enemy
Somehow making an enemy
User avatar

Joined: 25 Feb 2007, 15:45
Posts: 240
Location: Australia
jennifer wrote:
I agree with others that Anne speaking sharply to Joey was perfectly reasonable - they're supposed to be studying for exams, and for some of the girls the results matter, and Joey is being an immature nuisance. Yes, Joey is sensitive about the fact that she doesn't have exciting plans after leaving school, but it's also true that she doesn't have to perform well academically and other girls do. And I don't think Joey would have been thrilled to be told that she had to study hard and get good grades so she could train for a job to support herself!


Isn't there a line about Joey's friends understanding why Joey was feeling that way so they were sympathetic? But how could Anne have possibly known? From Anne's POV, Joey was simply being annoying.

Joey was not only being immature but then she also holds a grudge. And her well famed "feeling for others" was in abeyance.

As for she's Head Girl and you are a sub - so what? is the HG really such a big deal? If Anne had spoken like that to Joey in front of the juniors, then maybe she should apologise simply for setting a bad example, but it was in front of their own peers.

Oh dear - MORE Joey bashing!

Cheers,
Joyce

_________________
It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how - Dr Seuss


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anne Seymour
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2017, 01:35 
Offline
Coming top in the form
Coming top in the form
User avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2004, 21:57
Posts: 500
Location: UP NORTH
I think Darrell resigned before her Form Mistress demoted her.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anne Seymour
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2017, 01:44 
Offline
Glad to be back at school
Glad to be back at school
User avatar

Joined: 20 Jul 2012, 13:07
Posts: 1191
Location: Fife, Scotland
Pollyana wrote:
Alison H wrote:
Hilda Jukes was told that she was too irresponsible to be considered for a prefectship because she accidentally injured Nina Rutherford during a game of leapfrog organised by a mistress during a Games lesson. And Nina wasn't positioned properly because she hadn't played the game before. Some girls didn't half get a raw deal!

I don't think any CS prefects were demoted. Didn't Darrell in Malory Towers get demoted .... I think lower down the school when she was form prefect, but it's a while since I read them? Peggy and Dickie going out in a severe gale was arguably as silly as Anne climbing over a cliff.


Yes, Darrell got demoted from being Form Prefect for a while in the Fourth Form, when she was caught shaking June (Alicia's annoying cousin).

I always felt sorry for Hilda in that scene with Nina. She didn't mean any harm, and was just playing the game. The fact that Nina didn't understand the game at all wasn't Hilda's fault - but then that seems to be a running theme, its a bit like Betty being at fault for getting hit by a flying bookend, or Jane being told off when she got attacked by Jack for cleaning Miss Ferrar's car.
There really are so many instances in the books where you get punished for just obeying the rules and/or the mistresses, its quite worrying!


To be fair to Nina though she hadn't been at school before and Joey/EBD does a good job of explaining to Hilda/the reader why Nina reacted that way.

_________________
Every life is both ordinary and extraordinary – it is the respective proportions of those two categories that make that life appear interesting or humdrum.
William Boyd//Any Human Heart


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anne Seymour
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2017, 04:32 
Offline
Receiving support from the form
Receiving support from the form

Joined: 30 Jan 2004, 00:07
Posts: 646
Location: Taiwan
I'm pretty sure that if I tried to play leap frog, someone would get hurt, no matter how hard I tried to gracefully and lightly leap over people.

The other prefect incident is in Two Sams, when a group of them are reduced to tears and threatened with not being worthy of being prefects for not realizing that Samantha hadn't taken a ski test she had never been told she needed to take. If I recall correctly, they're also told that they will be bad mothers.

_________________


Ring the bells that still can ring; Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything; That's how the light gets in
Anthem: Leonard Cohen



Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anne Seymour
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2017, 09:37 
Offline
Learning to play Lacrosse
Learning to play Lacrosse
User avatar

Joined: 21 Oct 2004, 08:41
Posts: 472
Location: Manchester
And then there is Head Girl Marilyn having to replaced - does that count as a demotion, however else it is dressed up...?


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anne Seymour
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2017, 21:03 
Offline
Discovering you have to be trilingual
User avatar

Joined: 13 Nov 2007, 16:52
Posts: 61
jennifer wrote:
The other prefect incident is in Two Sams, when a group of them are reduced to tears and threatened with not being worthy of being prefects for not realizing that Samantha hadn't taken a ski test she had never been told she needed to take. If I recall correctly, they're also told that they will be bad mothers.


That one has always really stuck in my neck. Something you do at 16/17 has very little bearing on your ability to do something else in the future.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anne Seymour
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2017, 05:05 
Offline
Somehow making an enemy
Somehow making an enemy
User avatar

Joined: 25 Feb 2007, 15:45
Posts: 240
Location: Australia
miss_maeve wrote:
That one has always really stuck in my neck. Something you do at 16/17 has very little bearing on your ability to do something else in the future.


Miss Annersley does a very bizarre speech about in a few years you may be mothers and responsible for the upbringing of babies, so if you can't manage to tell a new girl she needs to take a test, then how can you be trusted?

Even as a child I thought that was a bit strong. Seriously?! To tell a 16yo you're going to be a bad mother?

Cheers,
Joyce

_________________
It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how - Dr Seuss


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anne Seymour
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2017, 10:44 
Offline
Being rude to your sheepdog
User avatar

Joined: 07 Oct 2004, 12:14
Posts: 44
Location: Brisbane
Joyce wrote:
miss_maeve wrote:
That one has always really stuck in my neck. Something you do at 16/17 has very little bearing on your ability to do something else in the future.


Miss Annersley does a very bizarre speech about in a few years you may be mothers and responsible for the upbringing of babies, so if you can't manage to tell a new girl she needs to take a test, then how can you be trusted?

Even as a child I thought that was a bit strong. Seriously?! To tell a 16yo you're going to be a bad mother?

Cheers,
Joyce


Its shocking, coming from a senior/headmistress like that. Did she have no idea what impact a statement like that could have on the girls?

I have had a lot of issues in my life over loving and trusting people and I am well aware that a lot of them stem from stuff a teacher yelled at me in front of a whole class when I was a very new, timid 11 year old first year.
I know if I'd been one of the girls spoken to after the skiing incident I would have been devastated and probably have avoided becoming a mother - extreme, but for many girls growing up seeing Miss Annersley as their heroine and role-model, thats the way they would react.

_________________

'Well,call me Aunt Fanny on my tombstone!'

Rosalie in 'Theodora...'


Top | End
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Board index .:|:. Slogging at Lessons :: Books .:|:. Lemon Biscuits & Liberty Bodices
It is currently 23 Mar 2017, 19:09

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group