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 Post subject: Joey and Outdoor Activities in Joey & Co in Tirol
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2017, 14:37 
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I have been re-reading randomly quite a few CS books recently. This is the most recent I have read.

It is a good story and I am enjoying reading it. The Maynards were brilliant becoming guardians to the three Richardsons whom they had not previously known. I have always thought that the Richardsons fitted in well with the Maynards. They are a constant and could also go and visit the other relatives who materialised so there were excuses for them not always being with the Maynards during holidays etc.

The triplets were also all very good the way they took on board so thoroughly another girl of the same age.
.
BUT (there is always a but) I found it totally unbelievable that Joey - nearly 36 years old, with twin babies of only two or three months old and just recovered from exhaustion should be such a good swimmer that she beats (they could have finished equal but she gave him a three second start) the near 17 year old sporty Roger, plus all three of her own teenage daughters after giving them all good starts. She is also said to be a better swimmer than Mary-Lou, the school swimming champion.

I don't know much about swimming so was it likely?

The other episode I found hard to believe was the mammoth walk to the cave which also involved climbing and much scrambling about. Said walk led by woman who had given birth to twins a couple of months previously and was recovering from exhaustion, and including 16 year old boy who had recently sustained a fairly serious ankle injury. Admittedly Roger was said to be fully recovered from injury but likely?


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 Post subject: Re: Joey and Outdoor Activities in Joey & Co in Tirol
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2017, 18:30 
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I find the swimming implausible. When has Joey had the opportunity to reach that level of fitness and training? Recently she's been unwell, before that she was heavily pregnant, and before that it was winter. She's unlikely to have been swimming at all since the previous summer. Whereas Roger, even if he hasn't been swimming regularly, will have been doing sport at school all through the year and maintaining a good level of fitness.

If Roger was a little weedy specimen then maybe, but we're explicitly told that he isn't!

The walking perhaps slightly less unlikely. Joey is very experienced in mountain walks and knows the way; she should know how to pace herself and when to take breaks. (Not that pacing herself has ever been one of Jo's strong points.)


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 Post subject: Re: Joey and Outdoor Activities in Joey & Co in Tirol
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2017, 21:59 
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If I was 50 years or so younger I think I might have quite "liked" Roger and Joey seems to treat him as an equal!


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 Post subject: Re: Joey and Outdoor Activities in Joey & Co in Tirol
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2017, 07:57 
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I've said before that I find the juxtaposition of two different Victorian ideas, delicate females and "healthy mind in healthy body"/"muscular Christianity" a bit strange sometimes, and I think this is one example of that. How do all those delicate girls, who have to go to bed for the afternoon if they get wet feet, manage all those strenuous hikes? This is an extreme example, though! Roger's a strapping six foot rugby-playing 17-year-old lad and Joey is a 36-year-old woman who is supposed to be recovering from a difficult pregnancy.

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 Post subject: Re: Joey and Outdoor Activities in Joey & Co in Tirol
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2017, 08:34 
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The hike mus have been about 10/12 hours and the first half aeens to have been severely uphill with a lot of scrambling. I can see the triplets and Roddy and Stephen managing but Charles was barely 10 and delicate. Ruey also must have struggled. Irresponsible?

A bit like expecting the middle aged women in Reunion all to be fut enough to go on long walks.


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 Post subject: Re: Joey and Outdoor Activities in Joey & Co in Tirol
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2017, 08:47 
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I walked up Snowdon with a 3 or 4 month old baby (he was on his dad's back) - have a photo of me breastfeeding sat on the grass halfway up


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 Post subject: Re: Joey and Outdoor Activities in Joey & Co in Tirol
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2017, 13:46 
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Joey is supposed to be a very good swimmer, even early on in the books. Perhaps EBD imagines her making regular trips to the Interlaken swimming baths to keep in shape. If Roger is in good physical condition but not a regular swimmer, I think it's conceivable that Joey would beat him. Presumably different muscles are used?

It's not the same thing, but my only proud moment in 13 years of PE was when I came second in the class, and first out of all the girls, in our class swimming races. (The boy who beat me belonged to a swimming club). About a year earlier I had been capable of swimming about 50 lengths of a small sized pool and although I hadn't been swimming for so long that to go to the swimming lessons I had to buy a new costume, I was still capable of swimming better than all the sporty boys.


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 Post subject: Re: Joey and Outdoor Activities in Joey & Co in Tirol
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2017, 14:21 
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I could see Joey being quite a good swimmer, although I'm not sure how often she'd be able to park the kids with someone to head down to the lake for serious practice - it's not like in the Tyrol where they could simply run down to the lake at a moment's notice.

But a couple of weeks before this, she was in shaky enough condition that a sudden shock caused a multi-hour faint required days in bed and the rearrangement of family vacation plans. Immediately before that, she carried twins to near term, gave birth, and was in delicate enough shape that she couldn't be told about her daughter's issues at school. And a half year before that, she had surgery for a 'misplaced organ' following an extended bout of intermittent illness. So she wouldn't exactly be in peak condition, even for a 36 year old in good shape.

I also assume she wasn't breastfeeding, because otherwise she'd be unable to leave the babies for more than about 3 hours (and the extra mammary mass would throw off her usual swim stroke).

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 Post subject: Re: Joey and Outdoor Activities in Joey & Co in Tirol
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2017, 19:53 
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Joey does tell Mary-Lou that she gets a lot of practice swimming (in that case, going down to Interlaken) but I think it would be very likely that the San had a swimming pool for hydrotherapy purpose which would have available for staff and staff family use out-of-hours. She could have been getting a lot of practice even in the winter and even when pregnant. There's also a comment in one of the later books where Jo says she "does her daily dozen" which would indicate that she does keep fit.

The other thing is that good technique helps. If she's always been a good swimmer then her technique may have been better than her younger rivals which would have given her an edge. A good technique would have also been a help during the walk!

As far as the collapses go: Joey has been inclined to collapse under mental stress rather than physical stress (for example in the evacuation from Guernsey) and I would see that very long faint after the Mike episode as being caused by worry. The fact she is mentally fragile does not mean that she is also physically fragile (although people are often treated that way)


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 Post subject: Re: Joey and Outdoor Activities in Joey & Co in Tirol
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2017, 21:19 
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Loryat wrote:
Joey is supposed to be a very good swimmer, even early on in the books. Perhaps EBD imagines her making regular trips to the Interlaken swimming baths to keep in shape. If Roger is in good physical condition but not a regular swimmer, I think it's conceivable that Joey would beat him. Presumably different muscles are used?

It's not the same thing, but my only proud moment in 13 years of PE was when I came second in the class, and first out of all the girls, in our class swimming races. (The boy who beat me belonged to a swimming club). About a year earlier I had been capable of swimming about 50 lengths of a small sized pool and although I hadn't been swimming for so long that to go to the swimming lessons I had to buy a new costume, I was still capable of swimming better than all the sporty boys.


Roger is described in the book as being a "fine swimmer"


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 Post subject: Re: Joey and Outdoor Activities in Joey & Co in Tirol
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2017, 21:34 
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Victoria wrote:
Joey does tell Mary-Lou that she gets a lot of practice swimming (in that case, going down to Interlaken) but I think it would be very likely that the San had a swimming pool for hydrotherapy purpose which would have available for staff and staff family use out-of-hours. She could have been getting a lot of practice even in the winter and even when pregnant. There's also a comment in one of the later books where Jo says she "does her daily dozen" which would indicate that she does keep fit.

The other thing is that good technique helps. If she's always been a good swimmer then her technique may have been better than her younger rivals which would have given her an edge. A good technique would have also been a help during the walk!

As far as the collapses go: Joey has been inclined to collapse under mental stress rather than physical stress (for example in the evacuation from Guernsey) and I would see that very long faint after the Mike episode as being caused by worry. The fact she is mentally fragile does not mean that she is also physically fragile (although people are often treated that way)


There is absolutely no mention of any pool in any of the books. Surely even if there had been a pool it would have been kept only for the TB patients, bearing in mind TB is a contagious disease? We only hear of the trek down to Interlaken to Lake Thun. Joey was ill in the last stages of her pregnancy and there is no way she would have been trekking down to Interlaken.

As Jennifer has said her physical health had not been good either. It is doubtful if she had been swimming since the previous summer and even then it mentions that during the holiday in Austria that year they had not got out because of the awful weather.

I don't remember Joey being an exceptional swimmer in her youth. Good, yes, probably, but nothing else rings bells.

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 Post subject: Re: Joey and Outdoor Activities in Joey & Co in Tirol
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2017, 01:43 
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And I think that in those days, vigorous exercise while pregnant was not a recommended thing - some gentle walking, yes, and lots of housework if you didn't have servants, but not swimming laps. And, as an example, Joey is kept to complete bed rest for three weeks after Cecily is born, and then gradually works back to being out of bed all day, and that was an uncomplicated pregnancy and birth of a single child. You can lose a lot of muscle mass staying in bed for three weeks.

I'd say that Joey is likely in very good shape for a mid-30s woman who has been having children at 2.5 year intervals for her adult life (including 3 set of multiples), but that this would not be up to the athletic standards of a strapping young 17 year old who is on sports teams and a good swimmer.

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 Post subject: Re: Joey and Outdoor Activities in Joey & Co in Tirol
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2017, 18:42 
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Perhaps it's Doctor's orders that Joey be as active as possible? :) She does have Jack to over see that she doesn't 'overdo' things so to speak.

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 Post subject: Re: Joey and Outdoor Activities in Joey & Co in Tirol
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2017, 22:01 
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EBD seems to have some very odd ideas about breastfeeding and how it works. Right from the birth of the triplets in Exile, she has had Joey having huge gaps between feeds, alternating bottles and breastfeeds at random, indicating that the babies still need their mother, but then having over 24 hours of no feeding. I have long since given up trying to get any sense out of the way those children were fed. Obviously Joey was engorgement proofed. :shock:

That said, I went back to work 10 days after the birth of all my children, and climbed Snowden when my first was 6 weeks old, and was breastfeeding her at the top (and in between), and that was a difficult and complicated birth.


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