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 Post subject: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 02 May 2017, 09:38 
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From the Highland twins thread - what you you think would have happened if Jack had died during the war, leaving Joey a young widow with four small children (she's pregnant with Stephen at this point)?

I think there would have been prolonged period of collapse, lasting well after Stephen was born. Joey would probably move back in with Madge at this point, and the triplets added to the Russell nursery. I could see Robin wanting to put off Oxford to stay with Joey and help out. But I'm not sure how she'd adapt after that point - would she become more attached to the school, or would she branch out to find new interests?

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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 02 May 2017, 10:59 
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I think she'd have got on with life all right - she's said to be starting to come round a bit by the time Fiona arrives at Plas Gwyn. She'd likely have a difficult pregnancy with the grief and stress, but I think by the time she'd had Stephen and recovered from the birth she'd have come to terms with things enough to cope. I could see her having to downscale from Plas Gwyn and Daisy having to move back to the Russells, but I certainly don't think she'd move back in with them herself, although I think she would definitely rely on them more for advice. Robin might put off going to Oxford for a year or two until the triplets were old enough for Kindergarten, but after that I think Jo would insist she go. AI don't see much changing where her involvement with the school is concerned.

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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 02 May 2017, 11:18 
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I think she'd have coped okay. She had a massive amount of support between family and the school community. I think she might have leant a bit on Madge for a couple of years, but I think she would have got over it and eventually re-married.


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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 02 May 2017, 11:52 
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Was it Nancy Reagan who said that a woman's like a teabag - you don't know how strong she is until she's in hot water? Or did she nick the quote from a book? We never see Joey having to cope, because there's always someone there to sort everything out for her. If she'd had to cope, like so many women who were widowed young by the war and left with young children to raise on their own, I'm sure she would have done. As Vintagejazz said, she'd have had a huge amount of support. Madge, Frieda, Simone and Elisaveta were all living nearby (was Marie still there as well?), and everyone from the school.

Almost a generation later, Len talks about Mary-Lou feeling obliged to give up university to babysit Doris - who wasn't ill at the time, and had no children living at home. I think Robin might well have felt that she should offer to give up university, but hopefully Joey would tell her to go anyway. I say "hopefully"!

I would think she'd still have been involved with the school. But, unless she married another doctor involved with the San, presumably she'd have stayed in Howells Village when the school moved to Switzerland.

We don't know exactly how Jack's finances were, though. He was still quite a young man. Would whatever he left, plus Jo's income from writing and whatever widow's pension she got from the Armed Forces, have been enough to support her and four children in the manner to which they were accustomed? If not, that would have changed things.

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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 02 May 2017, 18:29 
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Didn't Jack inherit Pretty Maids though?And if he'd died it would have gone to his children.I'm sure that she would have had shares in the school itself, which would have helped financial matters greatly especially after the war.

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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 02 May 2017, 18:51 
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I thinkBob died later than Highland Twins


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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 02 May 2017, 20:20 
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ivohenry wrote:
I thinkBob died later than Highland Twins
Yes, in Rescue. And even if Bob had died just before Jack, two lots of death duties within a couple of years would have been a real problem for the viability of the estate. I suspect Jo would not have been able to hang on to it for Stephen.


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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 02 May 2017, 20:36 
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I think Bob died the next summer in Jo to the Rescue.

I don't know how she would have coped. Wasn't it the second sight incident that helped her in the first place? If Jack really was dead she would have struggled. I think it would have taken her a number of years to get over Jack's death but she would have managed it and I am almost certain remarried eventually.

As well as Jack's future earnings, Jo would also lose any money Jack would have got after his brother died as this would have gone to the Maynard children.

She would possibly have got some kind of pension from the San because Jack had worked there and Jem might even "invent" something to give her more income.

If it wasn't for the fact that Gottfried was already married (a slight problem!), I could see Jo marrying him and still going to Switzerland but with Gottfried as head of the San there.

Just seen Noreen has written a more comprehensive answer about Bob.


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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 02 May 2017, 20:53 
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It sounds as if Pretty Maids was entailed. I know there are all sorts of disputes over how easy it is to break an entail, which always come up whenever discussing the Mr Bennet/Mr Collins or Earl of Grantham/Matthew Crawley scenarios, but I'm not sure that the estate could have been handed over to the National Trust whilst Stephen was a minor. It could all have got very messy.

Maybe Jack's mother would have got more involved with the children. She's barely mentioned in the books, except as a source of money. She was their only living grandparent, and all her other living grandchildren were in New Zealand. Maybe she would have come to stay, and she and Joey would have bonded. Probably not, but you never know.

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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 02 May 2017, 22:16 
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Stephen would probably have been called Jack instead.


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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 03 May 2017, 01:19 
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I think Alison_H describes why I have trouble picturing how Joey would cope - we never actually see her cope. Her approach is to run until she collapses, and then there's always someone to send her to bed for a week or two and take care of the children and household stuff.

The finance part I can't figure out. Jack obviously had some sort of private income plus his salary, but we don't know what type, or how it would continue after his death. Joey would lose the salary, and have massive death duties for Pretty Maids, and maybe or maybe not be able to get rid of it. Any pension from the San would be more of a family support than anything else - Bette Rincini had to go out to work as a servant after her San doctor husband died. She makes money from her writing, but that's not going to be enough to support a family and big house. So it could be anything from continuing on as normal, in a nice house with servants, to being broke enough to have to move back in with Madge.

When we see Joey, as the twins visit, she'd still be in the numb phase of grief, where it doesn't seem quite real yet. Coping with the reality of Jack's death in the long term would be different.

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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 03 May 2017, 02:28 
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Hi,

Would EBD have gone that far? We know she has no issues with killing off minor characters and parents with impunity, but whether she would have gone that far and killed off a major character is questionable.

It's like Game of Thrones - noone is safe! :D

But I see Joey going back to live with Madge and having Robin and Daisy around to help her. The trips and Stephen would be in the nursery and Joey would be constantly dosed and sedated.

I think she would have pulled herself together eventually and taught or wrote. And hopefully earned enough to be able to provide for her family. And knowing EBD, she would have remarried.

But I wonder if she would have kept writing? Isn't there a Girlsown writer who lost her partner in RL and then did not write again afterwards? I can't remember her name.

Cheers,
Joyce

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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 03 May 2017, 08:39 
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Alison H wrote:
IMaybe Jack's mother would have got more involved with the children. She's barely mentioned in the books, except as a source of money. She was their only living grandparent, and all her other living grandchildren were in New Zealand. Maybe she would have come to stay, and she and Joey would have bonded. Probably not, but you never know.


She's dead by this time, Alison. This is from Goes to It:

Quote:
‘Oh, quite impossible. If the old folk had been living, it would have been the obvious solution, for you know how they adored her, and she loved them dearly. But now that they are gone, and Mrs Robert and the Major are in possession, it’s out of the question, as you say. None of the Maynards have ever liked poor Lydia, and she is a most uncomfortable person, I admit. She has always resented the fact that, since Rolf’s death. Jack is his brother’s heir; and since the coming of the Triplets, it’s been worse. Bob Maynard wrote a charming letter to Jo, but Lydia has taken no notice whatsoever.’


It's all a bit confusing when Jo talks later of the money that Jack's mother left to the triplets and to Stephen.


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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 03 May 2017, 09:07 
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:shock: . How clever of her to leave money to Stephen when he hadn't even been conceived yet!

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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 03 May 2017, 09:38 
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Alison H wrote:
:shock: . How clever of her to leave money to Stephen when he hadn't even been conceived yet!

It's surely not uncommon to leave money to those already born "and any further issue of the marriage"? Joey wouldn't express it like that in a conversation would she?

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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 03 May 2017, 09:43 
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cestina wrote:
Alison H wrote:
:shock: . How clever of her to leave money to Stephen when he hadn't even been conceived yet!

It's surely not uncommon to leave money to those already born "and any further issue of the marriage"? Joey wouldn't express it like that in a conversation would she?


I think Joey says specifically that the legacy is for the triplets and Stephen - not the other Maynard offspring.

Has idea for drabble along the lines of Agatha Christie's 4.50 From Paddington as the older Maynard children worry about their shrinking legacy ...... :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 03 May 2017, 10:04 
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JB wrote:
cestina wrote:
Alison H wrote:
:shock: . How clever of her to leave money to Stephen when he hadn't even been conceived yet!

It's surely not uncommon to leave money to those already born "and any further issue of the marriage"? Joey wouldn't express it like that in a conversation would she?


I think Joey says specifically that the legacy is for the triplets and Stephen - not the other Maynard offspring.

Has idea for drabble along the lines of Agatha Christie's 4.50 From Paddington as the older Maynard children worry about their shrinking legacy ...... :twisted:


That's what I thought! As the family grows the amount to each child shrinks down to $1 each.

Though if the money is invested for the trips and Stephen and they are all given a lump sum when they turn 18, wouldn't the other kids be upset that they get nothing?

Cheers,
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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 03 May 2017, 10:20 
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cestina wrote:
Alison H wrote:
:shock: . How clever of her to leave money to Stephen when he hadn't even been conceived yet!

It's surely not uncommon to leave money to those already born "and any further issue of the marriage"? Joey wouldn't express it like that in a conversation would she?


But then it would have gone to all the other children too. I'm sure the mention of money being left to "the triplets and Stephen" is years and years later, when Jo's talking about the triplets needing money for university, by which time several more children had been born.

Probably just another EBDism :D .

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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 03 May 2017, 15:30 
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JB wrote:
Has idea for drabble along the lines of Agatha Christie's 4.50 From Paddington as the older Maynard children worry about their shrinking legacy ...... :twisted:

Yes, please. :D

And I agree with Alison, probably an EBDism to fit in with the plot.


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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 03 May 2017, 18:02 
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Maybe it was left to 'my eldest grandson' - was meant to be Rolf (but not named) and as he had died Steven, once he arrived, became the eldest grandson


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