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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 14 May 2017, 17:04 
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Seems unlikely they'd have bothered with the complicated and long-winded problem of breaking the entail once the war had started.

On the other hand, that's just when it became urgent, if they wanted to do it at all. Either or both of them could have been sent overseas at short notice, either or both of them could have been killed in an air raid. Then the opportunity would have been lost, and with neither of them having a son at the time, if they both died, the next heir, whoever it was, would inherit.

Presumably the family lawyer would deal with all the paperwork, Bob and Jack would just have to sign on the dotted line.

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What would a family do if they literally couldn't afford to pay the death duties, and the property were entailed?

At some point, I haven't looked up the precise date, the government introduced the practice of accepting significant works of art in lieu of death duties. Prevented the work being sold abroad in order to raise the money. But I don't get the impression that the Maynards were in the Old Master owning class. The house, and any land attached, would be the principal asset.

The books of authors such as Angela Thirkell, D. E. Stevenson, O. Douglas, are full of cash poor gentry families struggling to keep up their family homes in the face of death duties, high taxation, post war shortages, etc. etc.

An entail is a plot point in one of Georgette Heyer's mysteries.


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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 14 May 2017, 17:05 
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cestina wrote:
I am interested that apparently no one else on the board has ever been in a place where they felt constantly under the weather. There is good reason for that phrase to have been coined I think....


I do. The weather in South East Asia with its humidity means I always feel constantly under the weather and subpar whenever I'm there.


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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 14 May 2017, 21:27 
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I agree totally about humidity which always makes me feel lethargic so though the New Forest wouldn't be that bad it's probably what Jo means.


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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 14 May 2017, 21:35 
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Mel wrote:
I agree totally about humidity which always makes me feel lethargic so though the New Forest wouldn't be that bad it's probably what Jo means.


I'm another who doesn't do well in humid conditions; I'm always thankful that we have air conditioning, although I'm NOT thankful that all our public buildings seem to be air conditioned to the point that one needs to wear a sweater inside them!! :banghead: But I don't do well with exceptionally cold conditions either - you'd think after more than 40 years out here, I'd be accustomed to the extremes, but..... :cry:

Edited to make sense of one sentence!


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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 14 May 2017, 21:57 
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JayB wrote:
Quote:
What would a family do if they literally couldn't afford to pay the death duties, and the property were entailed?

At some point, I haven't looked up the precise date, the government introduced the practice of accepting significant works of art in lieu of death duties. Prevented the work being sold abroad in order to raise the money.


Google sayeth that that began in 1956, so too late for the Maynards.

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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 15 May 2017, 13:50 
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I doubt Jack would have any interest in carrying on Pretty Maids, other than sentimental feelings about his childhood home, and financially it would probably have been ruinous. They may be landowners but Jack, Mollie and Bob all get jobs too - I think EBD saw them as more professional class than landowner types.


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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 15 May 2017, 15:17 
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I can actually picture Stephen settling into life on the family estate, maybe after studying an engineering speciality applicable to improving the place. I could see him not having a strong tie to any of the places he's lived, and really appreciating the sense of family history and connection with the land.

But it wouldn't be realistic to keep the place running with managers and agents for the 20 years it would take before any of the Maynard boys would be old enough to take over the estate.

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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 15 May 2017, 15:52 
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I don't get this storyline at all. IIRC, there is no mention of Jack having a brother until we hear that the said brother's only child mysteriously died of being disobedient. Then Bob is killed off, and everyone slags off his widow, whom we never meet. Then Jack gives up the family home without us ever even seeing it. I know it's mentioned briefly in Head Girl, but we hear so little about it that it could just be a house, to be sold after Jack's parents died, without any need for all this talk about inheriting estates and the National Trust. Maybe it's there to make Jack sound posher, but there's never any mention of Jem inheriting a family estate and giving it up. I really don't understand why the storylines are there :? .

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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 15 May 2017, 18:29 
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But it wouldn't be realistic to keep the place running with managers and agents for the 20 years it would take before any of the Maynard boys would be old enough to take over the estate.

[Spoilers, I suppose, for anyone who hasn't read Antonia Forest's Marlow books]


The Marlows are in a similar position with Trennels. Cousin Jon, Captain Marlow and Giles all have their careers which they prefer to running Trennels. Initially there's Mr Tranter, but they're stuck without him.

What was the long term plan after Cousin Jon was killed? Was Rowan expected to keep on until their father felt like retiring and taking over? (Although of course it's all a plot device to allow Rowan to leave school and leave the way open for Evil Lois to be Games Prefect.)


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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 15 May 2017, 19:31 
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Just wondering - isn't Bob mentioned in the short story where Joey and Robin spend a holidays with the Maynards? Or was that a drabble?


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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 15 May 2017, 20:24 
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Whatever it was, story or drabble, the fact is that pretty Maids is there to give Jack a solidly respectable background that makes him worthy of marriage to our 'heroine'.

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A certain edge when she spoke of Mrs Maynard, certainly, but, after all, not everyone could love Joey.
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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 15 May 2017, 20:48 
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roversgirl wrote:
Just wondering - isn't Bob mentioned in the short story where Joey and Robin spend a holidays with the Maynards? Or was that a drabble?


Yes, it's an EBD short story called "Joey's Convict", Bob is mentioned as being nearly eleven years older than Mollie and Jack, who are twins. We also meet Ralph Arden, Mollie's fiance. Was he killed in the war?

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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 15 May 2017, 21:33 
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RubyGates wrote:
Bob is mentioned as being nearly eleven years older than Mollie and Jack, who are twins. We also meet Ralph Arden, Mollie's fiance. Was he killed in the war?
Heaven and EMBD alone know the answer to that one, I feel. OK, 'Joey's Convict' is a flashback story published in the 1940s, but we're told in In Camp, published 1932, that Mollie is on her way to New Zealand with her husband Alastair Macdonald; in Goes to It (1941) she's Mrs Bennett and has just had a second daughter; by Reunion (1963) her husband is Kenneth Mackenzie and the eldest children are Bobby, Dorothy-Mary & Cicely-Jane (twins) (plus Hugh, Frank, Peter and Chris). I can only think that the engagement to Ralph was called off, for those who like to be tidy about these things...


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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 15 May 2017, 21:43 
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Maybe he was on the run and kept changing his name ...

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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 15 May 2017, 22:06 
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 16 May 2017, 13:35 
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Yes, Mollie Maynard's husband has a different name every time he is mentioned. :D

The Lydia thing is pretty harsh. She loses her only child, and is told that it's completely her fault for not being a better parent. Her husband's family hates her, and her husband is killed during the war, which means she also loses her home.

I can't help but picture Margot's dunking in Lake Lucerne going slightly differently, Margot drowning and Joey being told it's completely her own fault for not training Margot to be more obedient.

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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 16 May 2017, 16:23 
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Just going slightly OT, as far as I remember there is never any suggestion of Jack going back to his regiment. There's never any mention of permanent damage to his health, so I would have expected that he'd be patched up and then sent back. My grandad was wounded during the D-Day Landings and, as soon as he was fit for active service again, back he went, and the same with tens of thousands of other men. It's possible that the War Office decided that Jack'd be of more use as a doctor on the Home Front than as either a soldier (I think he was in the Army rather than the Navy, wasn't he?) or an army medic, but I don't think it's ever explained.

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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 16 May 2017, 18:03 
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Alison H wrote:
It's possible that the War Office decided that Jack'd be of more use as a doctor on the Home Front than as either a soldier (I think he was in the Army rather than the Navy, wasn't he?) or an army medic, but I don't think it's ever explained.
This probably won't altogether surprise you, but he was in both: in Exile he's in the army in France, in Highland Twins he's in the Navy in the Far East.


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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 16 May 2017, 19:08 
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:lol: :lol: :lol: I knew there was a reason I wasn't sure which one it was! Oh dear, EBD ...

Whichever one it was, I don't get the impression that he was invalided out. He seems to be in perfect health by Lavender.

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 Post subject: Re: If Jack Had Died
PostPosted: 18 May 2017, 10:48 
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jennifer wrote:
The Lydia thing is pretty harsh. She loses her only child, and is told that it's completely her fault for not being a better parent. Her husband's family hates her, and her husband is killed during the war, which means she also loses her home.


She doesn't lose her home as Joey says in Rescue to her friends that Jack is going to ask Lydia where she wants to live - London or Pretty Maids. He doesn't hand it over to the National Trust until Changes which is 7-8 years later. So presumably Lydia stays at Pretty Maids.

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