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 Post subject: Dosed!
PostPosted: 29 May 2017, 21:40 
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I've just finished reading Mary-Lou and yet again Jack slips something in Joey's drink to make her sleep after the stress of what happened to Mary-Lou. How many times are people dosed to sleep in the series? What would the drug be?


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 Post subject: Re: Dosed!
PostPosted: 29 May 2017, 22:07 
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Possibly chloral (more properly chloral hydrate) which was a very popular sedative in the 19th and early 20th centuries, and therefore something the young EMBD may have heard adults mention, or even been dosed with herself. It was also supposed to be good for a broad range of minor problems such as upset stomach, headache, nausea and pain, but was particularly prized for giving a good quality of sleep - if it isn't the basis of Matey's patent doses too, I'll be very surprised!

PS It can be addictive, as Dante Gabriel Rossetti found to his cost...


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 Post subject: Re: Dosed!
PostPosted: 29 May 2017, 23:54 
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I've always thought Matey's patent doses were laxatives!


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 Post subject: Re: Dosed!
PostPosted: 30 May 2017, 06:25 
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Possibly. A lot of people of that generation were obsessed with laxatives, and thought that being "regular" was the answer to everything :lol: .

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 Post subject: Re: Dosed!
PostPosted: 30 May 2017, 11:17 
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Alison H wrote:
Possibly. A lot of people of that generation were obsessed with laxatives, and thought that being "regular" was the answer to everything :lol: .

As indeed it is as you will find as you get older!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Dosed!
PostPosted: 30 May 2017, 13:35 
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I always wondered what the matrons were looking for when the girls stuck out their tongues, although the treatment seems invariably to be a laxative. I can't really find much info other than Chinese medicine, and I struggle to imagine Matey diagnosing excess yang in a poorly Middle.

That's interesting about the chloral hydrate. I'd never heard of it before and assumed Jem and Jack were dosing everyone up with valium.


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 Post subject: Re: Dosed!
PostPosted: 30 May 2017, 15:31 
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'Chloral' tends to be overshadowed by opium and its derivative laudanum, both of which are much better-known - if only because of Victorian celeb usage. By EMBD's childhood there was much more caution about using those two, but there were still plenty of pharmacists who would make up a customer's own recipe for use at home and include small amounts. There were also no doubt plenty of people who were horrified by the idea of pure opium but would quite happily give their children 'Paregoric' or 'Godfrey's Cordial' which were derived from it.

Further info here.


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 Post subject: Re: Dosed!
PostPosted: 30 May 2017, 15:55 
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Quote:
I always wondered what the matrons were looking for when the girls stuck out their tongues, although the treatment seems invariably to be a laxative.

I think a furry tongue was popularly supposed to be a sign of constipation. No idea if that's an accurate supposition.

With social historian's hat on, constipation was a genuine public health issue, especially among the working classes:
Diets consisting largely of stodge;
Fruit and veg available only in season, and then only if you could afford them/had the means to grow your own;
Outdoor toilets, sometimes communal ones shared with everyone on your landing/in your row or court, which put people off going, especially women and girls.


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 Post subject: Re: Dosed!
PostPosted: 30 May 2017, 19:45 
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There is a reference in Shocks to Matey giving Miss Annerlsey aspirin in whiskey, and calling it a "dose".

Quote:
Miss Annersley told them and wound up with a plaintive, 'You might make some tea, one of you. I loathe the taste of whisky and this was even worse than usual. What else did you put in it, Matey?'
'Four aspirins,' Matron said calmly as Rosalie went off in quest of the tea. 'We're getting too near the end of term to risk any colds, let me tell you. Now you can just stay here quietly for the rest of the morning and let that dose settle.'


From a quick search, there are also references to aspirin helping people sleep in Jo Of, Gay, Kenya and Rosalie.

So I always assumed that the other doses mentioned without specifics were something fairly innocuous like that - I know that aspirin isn't a sedative but I'm not sure EBD did given the reference above.

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 Post subject: Re: Dosed!
PostPosted: 30 May 2017, 19:53 
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Four aspirin at once. With alcohol. Oh dear ...

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 Post subject: Re: Dosed!
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2017, 12:24 
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Am now picturing Hilda Annersley developing an ulcer and everyone saying it was stress but actually the cause is aspirin and alcohol on an empty stomach!

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 Post subject: Re: Dosed!
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2017, 20:38 
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I'm always revolted by the description of Madge's own 'jorum' with which she makes the rounds of the dormitory in 'School At' (I think?). And Mademoiselle's 'Tisanes' (?) sound even worse!

How times have changed! Nowadays, even a school Nurse needs parental consent to dispense a simple painkiller.


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 Post subject: Re: Dosed!
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2017, 21:08 
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Dawn09 wrote:
And Mademoiselle's 'Tisanes' (?) sound even worse!


"Tisanes" are just herbal teas which most of Europe drinks when they are unwell although they don't seem to have taken on at all in Britain. I have in my tea cupboard special mixes for: colds, coughs, bronchial problems, stomach problems, and sleeping difficulties. And there are many more including ones to help weight loss and nervous complaints.

You can buy them in any supermarket, nowadays in teabags, and they are definitely soothing and, we think, efficacious, though I have no experience for the one for nerves...

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 Post subject: Re: Dosed!
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2017, 21:31 
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I've tried various herbal teas which were supposed to help you sleep and help you lose weight. They were a complete waste of money, and didn't even taste nice! Things like honey and ginger teas for colds and sore throats are more effective, though, and ginger's supposed to help with nausea as well, so maybe Mlle used that sort of thing. And isn't camomile supposed to be soothing?

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 Post subject: Re: Dosed!
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2017, 21:42 
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They certainly don't taste nice, most of them. I don't think there is any reason why they should actually. The Czech one for restful sleep works for me; it's partly made of valerian which tastes disgusting but has been used for centuries to aid sleep.

We find the cold and bronchial ones very useful but they need a judicious dose of honey with them to make them palatable. And mint, aniseed, fennel and caraway of course have also been used for generations for indigestion. Cue gripe water....

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 Post subject: Re: Dosed!
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2017, 21:47 
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Even when a particular herb is known (ie through proper clinical studies) to have an effect on (say) appetite, commercial tea bags often don't have sufficient of the herb to produce a therapeutic dose. Worst in those ways are tea bags that combine herbs (often labelled something like "calm" rather than by the herb name).

if you want an effective tisane, then you really need to start from the loose seed/root/leaf.


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 Post subject: Re: Dosed!
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2017, 01:32 
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In North America, a lot of the herbal remedies, health teas and so on are marketed as food supplements, not drugs, which means there's a lot less oversight into testing or quality - when they actually test, even on major brands, the results are pretty dreadfull (none of the actual active ingredient, contains un-disclosed wheat or soy, that sort of thing).

The weight loss teas you have to be a bit careful of, as some contain diuretics.

Chinese medicine has all sorts of mixtures of herbs, barks and fruits in tea or soup flavouring form, some of which are very odd or bitter. I've come to quite like some of the medicinal soup mixtures, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Dosed!
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2017, 11:41 
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Kate wrote:
There is a reference in Shocks to Matey giving Miss Annerlsey aspirin in whiskey, and calling it a "dose".

Quote:
Miss Annersley told them and wound up with a plaintive, 'You might make some tea, one of you. I loathe the taste of whisky and this was even worse than usual. What else did you put in it, Matey?'
'Four aspirins,' Matron said calmly as Rosalie went off in quest of the tea. 'We're getting too near the end of term to risk any colds, let me tell you. Now you can just stay here quietly for the rest of the morning and let that dose settle.'


From a quick search, there are also references to aspirin helping people sleep in Jo Of, Gay, Kenya and Rosalie.

So I always assumed that the other doses mentioned without specifics were something fairly innocuous like that - I know that aspirin isn't a sedative but I'm not sure EBD did given the reference above.


I really hope it wasn't a single malt!

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 Post subject: Re: Dosed!
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2017, 12:07 
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Taken four asprin with whisky is not a great combination, the asprin won't help you sleep, although the whisky might lol. The asprin would help for aches and pains that might keep you awake but not 4 at a time.Of course in the days of the CS they didn't have as much info on side effects and also very few other types of medication to use.


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 Post subject: Re: Dosed!
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2017, 23:01 
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cestina wrote:
They certainly don't taste nice, most of them. I don't think there is any reason why they should actually. The Czech one for restful sleep works for me; it's partly made of valerian which tastes disgusting but has been used for centuries to aid sleep.


I must try that one, as long as it doesn't contain camomile (which makes me feel sick).

Quote:
We find the cold and bronchial ones very useful but they need a judicious dose of honey with them to make them palatable. And mint, aniseed, fennel and caraway of course have also been used for generations for indigestion. Cue gripe water....


When I was in Germany in May I developed a fearsome sore throat and cough; I bought some German tisane for it, which tasted absolutely disgusting (mostly licorice, I think), but was extremely efficacious. Mostly I buy tilleul (linden blossom) either in France or, lately, in Turkish supermarkets, which I like to drink before bed. I've gone off peppermint tea - because I drink it when I feel sick, I tend to think I feel sick when I drink it, if that makes sense!


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