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 Post subject: Re: EBD's medical knowledge
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2017, 14:57 
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Elizabeth II became Queen the moment after her father died. There's no gap in the accession.

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 Post subject: Re: EBD's medical knowledge
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2017, 15:07 
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Jennie wrote:
Elizabeth II became Queen the moment after her father died. There's no gap in the accession.


Indeed: the scenario suggested - book sent to publishers in say late January 1952 (God save the King), while it is being edited, type-set and what have you George VI dies - oops rapid change in text (God save the Queen) before publication...

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 Post subject: Re: EBD's medical knowledge
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2017, 16:03 
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The death of George VI is one of those "I remember exactly where I was when I heard" moments for me, like the assassination of Kennedy and the World Trade Centre bombing.

Ten years old, in the school dining room, one of the monitors left behind to clear the place after lunch. One of the teachers came in, crying, and told the three of us there what had happened and that we were all being sent home for the afternoon.

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 Post subject: Re: EBD's medical knowledge
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2017, 17:28 
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Jennie wrote:
Elizabeth II became Queen the moment after her father died. There's no gap in the accession.


Well, yes, that is something everyone knows. There was a gap, however, of 16 months between her father's death in February 1952 and her crowning as queen in June 1953 and I did wonder if EBD had written her words either soon after the late King's death or soon after the coronation.

Edited for clarity


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 Post subject: Re: EBD's medical knowledge
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2017, 19:58 
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The scene in question is actually in Shocks, at the end of the staff evening:

Quote:
'We must have The Queen!' Bride cried, plunging towards the piano.
Miss Lawrence was before her. She struck the chord and everyone sang 'God Save the Queen' with all the energy left in them.


Shocks was published in 1952, the same year as Wrong and Oberland. According to GGB and the NCC website, Shocks was published before Oberland (with Wrong obviously coming before either of them), therefore it must have been written fairly early on in 1952. So the Queen hadn't been crowned at that point, but George VI must have died either as EBD was writing it or as it was being prepared for publishing.

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 Post subject: Re: EBD's medical knowledge
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2017, 20:52 
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It's a bit confusing, though. If Shocks was published any time before December 1952, it's presumably describing the autumn term of the previous year, when the King was still alive, and Bride would have been calling for 'the King'. EBD can't have been writing about the autumn of 1952 when it hadn't happened yet!

(Hilda announces the King's death to the school - drabble, anyone?)


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 Post subject: Re: EBD's medical knowledge
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2017, 22:38 
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There's actually bits about the anthem in two books about that time. In Bride Leads at the end of the sale " Miss Lawrence struck up 'The Queen' which was sung with full throats". This book was published in 1953.


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 Post subject: Re: EBD's medical knowledge
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2017, 22:48 
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Audrey25 wrote:
Jennie wrote:
Elizabeth II became Queen the moment after her father died. There's no gap in the accession.


Well, yes, that is something everyone knows. There was a gap, however, of 16 months between her father's death in February 1952 and her crowning as queen in June 1953 and I did wonder if EBD had written her words either soon after the late King's death or soon after the coronation.

Edited for clarity


Apologies Jennie. The beginning of my answer sounds a bit snooty. No need for it.


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 Post subject: Re: EBD's medical knowledge
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2017, 22:55 
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I've just had a swatch at the water pageant in Wrong as I vaguely remembered the anthem being sung then as well, and it's 'The King' in my 1958 hardback, but just 'the national anthem' in my Armada paperback. Since Wrong was the first of the three books published in 1952, it's likely that George VI was still alive when EBD wrote it, but he may possibly have died by the time it was published. Maybe it was too late in the publishing process to change it when it occurred? The fact that it's still 'The King' rather than 'The Queen' in the 1958 reprint is interesting though, especially as they did change it when it was printed in paperback.

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 Post subject: Re: EBD's medical knowledge
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2017, 14:51 
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Isn't a date also given in Carola when Hilda asks when she was born and she gives the exact date (the year being 1936 - don't have the book to hand at the moment) and Hilda comments that she is just 15, so making it 1951?

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 Post subject: Re: EBD's medical knowledge
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2017, 01:56 
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Audrey25 wrote:
Jennie wrote:
Elizabeth II became Queen the moment after her father died. There's no gap in the accession.


Well, yes, that is something everyone knows. There was a gap, however, of 16 months between her father's death in February 1952 and her crowning as queen in June 1953 and I did wonder if EBD had written her words either soon after the late King's death or soon after the coronation.


So exactly when does the anthem change? The minute the previous monarch dies or when the new monarch is actually crowned?

So what is the anthem between the death and the coronation?

Cheers,
Joyce

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 Post subject: Re: EBD's medical knowledge
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2017, 04:41 
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Joyce wrote:
So exactly when does the anthem change? The minute the previous monarch dies or when the new monarch is actually crowned?

So what is the anthem between the death and the coronation?

Cheers,
Joyce


The anthem would change as soon as there is a Queen instead of a King (or vice versa, as will happen when the current Queen dies). As soon as the death of George VI was publicly announced, the anthem would have changed to "God Save the Queen." It's slightly difficult to say exactly, because George VI died overnight, and the Queen was out of the country, so there was a delay in the public announcement until she had been informed of her father's death.


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 Post subject: Re: EBD's medical knowledge
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2017, 10:08 
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Officially, as soon as the fomal announcement of, "The King is dead, God save the Queen!" is made, she was recognized as queen, and that would have been the anthem. In practice, I can imagine a lot of people singing, "God save our gracious Ki - een!"

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 Post subject: Re: EBD's medical knowledge
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2017, 11:56 
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Rather like having to adjust to the Prime Minister being referred to as "he" after eleven years of Margaret Thatcher in the role.


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 Post subject: Re: EBD's medical knowledge
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2017, 14:57 
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And now having to adjust to saying 'she' again.

I've read that the press accompanying the royal party at Treetops had all heard the news before the royal party had heard it officially. The journos were asking the royal officials for confirmation, which they were unable to give.

I've also read, which may or may not be true, that the official telegram with the news was in code, so no-one realised how urgent it was, and it was lying around in a post office waiting for someone to get around to sending it on to Treetops.


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 Post subject: Re: EBD's medical knowledge
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 12:12 
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JayB wrote:
I've read that the press accompanying the royal party at Treetops had all heard the news before the royal party had heard it officially.


What an awful way to find out about a family member's death.


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 Post subject: Re: EBD's medical knowledge
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 12:49 
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Willing to be corrected on this, but I believe it was Philip who actually broke the news to the Queen. Not sure if 'sensitive' and 'Philip' actually belong in the same sentence, but she would at least have heard it in private, and not from some gossiping newshounds.


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 Post subject: Re: EBD's medical knowledge
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 12:51 
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That's how I understand it - the press told one of the royal party, who told Prince Philip, and he took the Queen somewhere quiet and broke the news to her.

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 Post subject: Re: EBD's medical knowledge
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2017, 05:18 
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I love how you are always learning on the CBB! I never knew the story of the Queen learning of her father's death, and have never considered when exactly the anthem changes. This was quite interesting: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... death.html

Returning to topic, EBD's medical opinions were distinctly Victorian! I have a vision of reading one of those "Home Remedies" type tomes, prescribing hot milk as a panacea for all illnesses and diseases.
I wonder where EBD's fixation with doctors came from- did she have any close dr friends? Was she secretly in love with a doctor?
(Did she nurse her sick mother, or did I make that up? entering fantasy land in which EBD falls for the doctor in attendance on her mother, hoping he will take care of her and slip her sedatives when stressful situations arise...)

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 Post subject: Re: EBD's medical knowledge
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2017, 07:03 
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mrs helston wrote:
Returning to topic, EBD's medical opinions were distinctly Victorian! I have a vision of reading one of those "Home Remedies" type tomes, prescribing hot milk as a panacea for all illnesses and diseases.


I think that's the key behind a lot of the health stuff in the books - hot milk with a dose in it, the curative power of fresh air, the dependence on laxatives as a cure-all, an emphasis on a plain diet for small children, getting wet causing deathly illness. It was probably behind the times from a medical research perspective, but not unusual for a non-medical home-remedy approach.

And some stuff genuinely was part of the medical wisdom of the time, but has since changed. Leaving babies in a pram in the garden most of the time (and the idea that picking up a crying baby can spoil them), the treatment for strained backs and the whole fresh-air obsession were all official medical advice at one point.

The emphasis on fresh milk as a health booster is a bit ironic, though, given the role of unpasturized milk in transmitting some pretty nasty diseases (including TB).

Quote:
I wonder where EBD's fixation with doctors came from- did she have any close dr friends? Was she secretly in love with a doctor?


Her father abandoned the family when she was a child, and she had a younger brother who died of illness. Both events seem to have been covered up after the fact, and not spoken of afterwards.

So I could see this contributing to a romanticized view of doctors - being cared for by a strong male authority figure, who is also able to conquer serious illnesses. And I think doctors are viewed with less reverence now than they used to be, in general.

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