Login   Register     FAQ    Members

View unanswered posts   View active topics


Board index .:|:. Slogging at Lessons :: Books .:|:. Lemon Biscuits & Liberty Bodices
It is currently 18 Nov 2017, 16:40



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Girls for whom the school was a bad choice
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2017, 08:33 
Offline
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2004, 13:57
Posts: 7287
Location: Manchester
Following on from what Jennifer said about the CS not being the right school for Yseult, I think there are several girls about whom the same could be said. The obvious one is Naomi. Why send someone who is agnostic and has limited mobility to a school which puts so much emphasis on religion and physical exercise? Another one is Evelyn Ross: it was difficult for her because her mum was at the San and wanted her nearby, but she'd turned 16, wasn't academic, and said herself that she'd have been better at a secretarial college. Who else might have been better off elsewhere?

_________________
We really must stop eating like this ...

Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.

http://setinthepast.wordpress.com/




Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Girls for whom the school was a bad choice
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2017, 10:44 
Offline
First Lesson
First Lesson
User avatar

Joined: 13 May 2015, 20:15
Posts: 117
Location: Cumbria
How about Nina Rutherford, perhaps with her musical genius she would have been better off at a more specalised school.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Girls for whom the school was a bad choice
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2017, 12:21 
Offline
Promising to do better
Promising to do better
User avatar

Joined: 20 Jul 2012, 13:07
Posts: 772
Location: Fife, Scotland
I disagree about Nina. I think the CS was the best place for her and did let her specialise but with enough "foundations" for her career i.e hobbies, friendships and not working her like a demon so she ends up resenting her talent.

_________________
Every life is both ordinary and extraordinary – it is the respective proportions of those two categories that make that life appear interesting or humdrum.
William Boyd//Any Human Heart


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Girls for whom the school was a bad choice
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2017, 14:36 
Offline
First Lesson
First Lesson
User avatar

Joined: 13 May 2015, 20:15
Posts: 117
Location: Cumbria
.
tartan-belle wrote:
I disagree about Nina. I think the CS was the best place for her and did let her specialise but with enough "foundations" for her career i.e hobbies, friendships and not working her like a demon so she ends up resenting her talent.


Hmm, perhaps so, it saved her just focusing on the one thing and helped her appreciate the world around her.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Girls for whom the school was a bad choice
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2017, 15:16 
Offline
Somehow making an enemy
Somehow making an enemy

Joined: 29 May 2009, 18:01
Posts: 238
Location: North west Germany
Felicity Maynard if she really was intending to follow a career in ballet?


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Girls for whom the school was a bad choice
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2017, 15:51 
Offline
Promising to do better
Promising to do better

Joined: 17 Nov 2011, 02:45
Posts: 771
Possibly Rosamund Lilley and Joan Baker. Both would probably have been better attending local schools - Rosamund, the same high school as Charmain and Joan similarly in whatever area to which her parents had removed.

Like Evelyn and Yseult, Joan clearly chafed against the regimentation, the school doesn't cater for her interests at all and, as a result, she remains an outsider. She'd have been better-off getting her education of a higher standard from a day school where she could have outside friends who did share her interests in popular dance, for instance.
Rosamund's not as clear-cut. She copes better with the CS than Joan but it's hard to see what she got that could not have been delivered more easily by her attending the same high school as Charmain. It's unlikely that the CS delivered a better educational standard and the advantages of being trilingual are dubious if you are never going use the languages after leaving school. There's no tradition among her family or friends of going away to school so she's in danger of becoming distanced from her associates - her parents are never going to be able to travel out to attend school functions. (It also seems a strange thing for the gays to do. It would have much cheaper to send Rosamund to the English branch if they felt there were advantages to a boarding school education)


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Girls for whom the school was a bad choice
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2017, 17:44 
Offline
First Lesson
First Lesson
User avatar

Joined: 13 May 2015, 20:15
Posts: 117
Location: Cumbria
The thing about Joan is though,had she remained at a local school the chances are she may well have just messed about and wasted that education.At the CS she is away from that and although she never really fits in she does get a good education plus the bonus of languages.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Girls for whom the school was a bad choice
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2017, 17:45 
Online
Asked to help with the play
Asked to help with the play
User avatar

Joined: 27 May 2006, 13:28
Posts: 896
Location: SE England
I agree about Naomi. She didn't need to be at school at all; it's not as if she was going to take exams. She only needed somewhere to live with a certain amount of adult supervision.

When St Mildred's started, most of the girls were seventeen. She could have gone there. But by the time she starts at the school, St Mildred's seems to be mostly 18-19 yr olds, so Naomi wouldn't have quite fitted in there either.

In the past there'd have been poor but genteel widows who'd take girls like Naomi as paying guests and chaperone them around, but not by the 1950s.

Odette Wotsit clearly wasn't suited to boarding school, but given her mother's health issues and lack of other relatives, there doesn't seem to have been any other option.

And I'd suggest the school was wrong for Eustacia, too. Or at least, the school as it was at that point in its history. If they could have shown her just a little of the flexibility they were later willing to show Nina, things might have gone better.

I don't think the school was too bad a choice for Nina, given that the School by the River wasn't an option.

I wonder if part of the point of sending Joan to boarding school, from her grandfather's point of view, was to get her away from Vic Coles and the possibility of a teenage pregnancy.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Girls for whom the school was a bad choice
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2017, 02:09 
Offline
Finding out about the Sale
Finding out about the Sale

Joined: 30 Jan 2004, 00:07
Posts: 837
Location: Taiwan
In many ways the school was a bad choice for Margot. The combination of starting out with a reputation as being smart but lazy, the unquestioned expectation that she should be performing several years above her age level, and an unhealthy leniency when it came to her misbehaviour was really not good for her. A standard school, where the headmistress wasn't an honorary aunt and one of her mother's best friends, she was given reasonable expectations and consistent discipline, and there was a bit more separation between home and school would have been much better for her.

In the Swiss days, I would say that the school was a poor chose for most girls joining the school as seniors, unless they happened to be reasonably fluent in all three languages. By fifth form, the girls are expected to follow the lessons and do their work in the language of the day without much help, and that's a lot for someone to manage when they're also worrying about doing well on standardized exams.

I think the school did pretty well by Nina. It may not have been the best choice for her musical education. She was so unbalanced in her social development, though, that she also needed to learn about things like interacting with a peer group, being part of a community, and needing to consider others, and slowing down the music to learn that would do more for her in the long run than going to a conservatory.

_________________


Ring the bells that still can ring; Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything; That's how the light gets in
Anthem: Leonard Cohen



Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Girls for whom the school was a bad choice
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2017, 07:50 
Offline
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2004, 13:57
Posts: 7287
Location: Manchester
I think all the Maynard and Russell girls might have been better off somewhere where they didn't have to live with being "Joey's daughter" or "Madge's daughter", but, as you say, it particularly seemed to affect Margot.

I'm trying to think how many of the other staff had relatives who were pupils. Doris Hill was Miss Leslie's niece, but didn't come to the school until years after Miss Leslie had left. Nell Randolph was Hilda's cousin, but only went to Welsen, where Hilda wasn't involved. Simone and Renee were Mlle's cousins, of course, but that was early on - and I can't remember any mention of them even going to her study for private Kaffee und Kuchen. And Peggy Burnett was Mary's sister and Rosalie's cousin, but that was barely even mentioned.

_________________
We really must stop eating like this ...

Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.

http://setinthepast.wordpress.com/




Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Girls for whom the school was a bad choice
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2017, 09:44 
Offline
Coming top in the form
Coming top in the form
User avatar

Joined: 21 May 2006, 16:51
Posts: 516
Location: Geelong, Australia
I actually wonder if the school was the best choice for any of the triplets. Not so much due to being Joey's daughters, but also because they were pushed so far ahead of their years and didn't get to be with their own age group, which would have been extremely important for their social development. Len was too old for her age and Margot was expected to be older for hers.

I wonder if the Chalet School was the best place for people who are so academically behind, despite having spent years at the school. If I were the Dawbarns' parents or the Ozanne parents, I would not have continued to send my daughters to the school as they were so backward academically and the school didn't or couldn't push them to achieve more than girls three years younger than themselves. And they were repeating years of school, they did poorly. Prudence Dawbarn was in Upper V in Redheads, which meant Miss Annersley must have made good her threat to hold anyone back for an entire year, if they didn't do better.

_________________
You should live each day as though you are going to live forever and as though you will die tomorrow.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Girls for whom the school was a bad choice
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2017, 10:36 
Offline
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2004, 13:57
Posts: 7287
Location: Manchester
Very good point. Emerence leaves school at 17, when she's only in the Vth form, and there's apparently very little chance of her ever being able to make it to the VIth form. Why not? What have the Hopes been paying huge fees for all those years? OK, some people are just not academic, but the school seems to make very little effort with them. People like Joan and Maeve accept that they are not academic but focus on the things that will give them the best chance of getting a good job, but others just doss around and get away with it. It's interesting how a school which is so keen on so many Victorian values doesn't seem at all keen on the idea of hard work! I appreciate that some of these girls were from very wealthy families and didn't have to earn their own livings, but surely any school should not just let people get away with doing no work.

I have a lot of sympathy for Miss Bubb :wink: .

_________________
We really must stop eating like this ...

Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.

http://setinthepast.wordpress.com/




Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Girls for whom the school was a bad choice
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2017, 15:36 
Offline
Escorting the new girls to Freudesheim
Escorting the new girls to Freudesheim
User avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2004, 21:07
Posts: 3430
Location: Cambridgeshire
The problem with Joan Baker was that no matter how well Joan did academically, how brave she was in difficult circumstances, EBD could never let her live down her past.

For an author who preached so earnestly about redeeming oneself, EBD would never let allow Joan to receive the praise and thanks that she deserved. She still trotted out the old things such as 'cheap prettiness', even though Joan put her own life at risk when helping others across and through the flood waters. Now, if Len had done that............!

_________________
Carpe diem, carpe noctem, carpe pecuniam et exe, celerrime.
A certain edge when she spoke of Mrs Maynard, certainly, but, after all, not everyone could love Joey.
'Life,' said Marvin, 'don't talk to me about life!'


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Girls for whom the school was a bad choice
PostPosted: 24 Oct 2017, 00:48 
Offline
Finding out about the Sale
Finding out about the Sale

Joined: 30 Jan 2004, 00:07
Posts: 837
Location: Taiwan
In the early days, when most of the girls left school and went home to wait to be married, it wouldn't have mattered much if they left after fifth form or sixth form. But in the Swiss days, the school is pretty expensive, and prides itself on its academics, so a girl failing multiple years should be a major thing.

What's odd, though, is that the girls like the Dawbarns and Emerence, who lag behind in form, are always described as being lazy and discipline problems. It's never a girl who is trying but has trouble keeping up, or has a dysfunctional home environment that's getting in the way. And the school controls the girls' prep time and out of school activities, so they've got more power than a day school when it comes to sitting a girl down and making her do the work properly.

The other odd thing is the way that girls casually mention that they're low in the form lists, so they'll be held back the next year, like it's standard to fail the bottom 20% of the class or so every year. If that's true, it would really suck to be a bit below average in a particularly bright class. And, mathematically, you'd end up with some girls years behind their age group, and all but the brightest failing at least one year. Not to mention the general problem which stack ranking (as some major tech companies have found) is that there's a strong incentive to sabotage other people to make sure you're not the one who gets fired.

_________________


Ring the bells that still can ring; Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything; That's how the light gets in
Anthem: Leonard Cohen



Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Girls for whom the school was a bad choice
PostPosted: 25 Oct 2017, 02:00 
Offline
Admiring Tom's latest effort
Admiring Tom's latest effort

Joined: 19 Sep 2011, 22:32
Posts: 850
thefrau46 wrote:
Felicity Maynard if she really was intending to follow a career in ballet?


EBD said in one her Chalet Club newsletters that she thought Felicity was set on trying to be a ballet dancer. If that was the case and she was good enough, she would have had to be trying for a place in a ballet school quite soon.

Regarding Naomi, even although she was agnostic, no school of those times would have let her off religous assemblies. In my 1600 pupil comprehensive in the late sixties, the only people who did not attend were the RCs. I remember much whispering when someone from another class was wanting permission not to attend but I don't know the reason or outcome.

I think that Rosamund might have been better attending a small, maybe weekly, boarding school near her home. Rosamund was as nice a girl as anyone attending the CS but it must have been absolutely overwhelming. Mary-Lou also says in Theodora, that apart from Len, Ros had always stood a bit alone so maybe she had not fitted in so well.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Girls for whom the school was a bad choice
PostPosted: 25 Oct 2017, 10:41 
Offline
Finding out about the Sale
Finding out about the Sale

Joined: 30 Jan 2004, 00:07
Posts: 837
Location: Taiwan
It would be interesting to see the effect on the Maynard family of Felicity insisting on a ballet school away from the Platz. The boys are sent to boarding school abroad with little fuss, but would the same thing apply to a daughter rejecting the Chalet school?

For Rosamund, even the CS in England would make more sense. It would be less totally overwhelming, and she'd be able to spend half-term holidays with her family. It could have been a very difficult choice for her parents - on one hand, an excellent opportunity for a better education, on the other, they would only see her three times a year for the next four or so years.

_________________


Ring the bells that still can ring; Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything; That's how the light gets in
Anthem: Leonard Cohen



Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Girls for whom the school was a bad choice
PostPosted: 25 Oct 2017, 15:55 
Offline
Beginning of term speech
Beginning of term speech
User avatar

Joined: 21 Oct 2014, 13:26
Posts: 425
I agree the Chalet School was not the best choice for Eustacia. She was basically sent there because her aunt could not handle her and the way she disrupted family life. But it was a huge upheaval for a young girl who had already lost both of her parents, and she might have been better being sent as a weekly boarder somewhere close by where she could go 'home' at weekends and gradually adapt to her new family and they could adapt to her.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Girls for whom the school was a bad choice
PostPosted: 25 Oct 2017, 18:04 
Offline
Learning to play Lacrosse
Learning to play Lacrosse
User avatar

Joined: 01 Jul 2006, 15:44
Posts: 478
Location: North Lanarkshire, Scotland
I wonder if the Maynards would have been able to afford it if Felicity did manage to get into a ballet school. Jo mentions two or three times that they're lucky the girls are being educated for free at the CS, and Steve wins a scholarship to pay for his school fees, so the implication is that if Jo and Jack had had to pay for all eleven kids, it would have been a struggle. Felicity breaking away from the CS to go somewhere else could be a problem, unless she won a scholarship or her godparents offered to fund it or something.

_________________
'We command the power of the elements. Storm, Earth and Fire! I'd never dress like an oversized chicken and shoot moon beams from the sky' - Stormcaller Jalara


Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Girls for whom the school was a bad choice
PostPosted: 25 Oct 2017, 18:53 
Offline
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
Rescuing a Junior from the lake
User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2004, 13:57
Posts: 7287
Location: Manchester
I don't know how Felicity's even supposed to have learnt ballet. Most British towns/cities have somewhere that offers ballet classes for kids, either on a Saturday or Sunday morning or one evening after school, and I would think it'd be the same in Switzerland, but that would mean going into Interlaken. I don't read the later Swiss books very often, but I can't remember any mention of a visiting ballet teacher (even though there's a ballet in at least one of the pantomimes). I was worse than useless at ballet :lol:, but, based on my "expert" knowledge from Lorna Hill and Noel Streatfeild books, anyone seriously thinking of a career in ballet would have had to go to at least two classes a week and done a lot of practice, even at the age Felicity is at the end of the series. Look how much work the girls who are planning a career in music do.

_________________
We really must stop eating like this ...

Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.

http://setinthepast.wordpress.com/




Top | End
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Girls for whom the school was a bad choice
PostPosted: 25 Oct 2017, 23:11 
Offline
Admiring Tom's latest effort
Admiring Tom's latest effort

Joined: 19 Sep 2011, 22:32
Posts: 850
Felicity's friend, Lucy Peters, was also apparently having ballet lessons. I think it is mentioned in Reunion. Goodness knows who from. EBD is quite adament in the newsletter that this is the career she thinks Felicity is going to follow.

As to whether they could afford it, I would say easily. If they really did not have the money she would probably have won a scholarship.:)

I know EBD puts in the odd remark about them watching their money but was that not to make them appear more like the readers? This was the family with a massive Swiss home who were then able to afford a huge extension for their Austrian house and going to put five boys through public school in England, albeit one had won a scholarship. Felicity going to ballet school would have been within their means.


Top | End
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 

Board index .:|:. Slogging at Lessons :: Books .:|:. Lemon Biscuits & Liberty Bodices
It is currently 18 Nov 2017, 16:40

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group