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Primula's passport.
http://the-cbb.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14998
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Author:  Supersal [ 02 Aug 2018, 20:32 ]
Post subject:  Primula's passport.

I am just rereading 'Joey goes to the Oberland' and wondered why Primula would have had a passport. The girls never seem to do trips abroad with school and I don't remember any mention of her going abroad with friends or family. My memory of twenty years later is that passports were only obtained for a specific visit overseas, and that was far less likely than it is today.

Author:  ivohenry [ 02 Aug 2018, 21:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Primula's passport.

She'd presumably have an Australian one whenshe came to Austria. She may have/had dual nationality.

Although she doesn't often get much of a mention she's Bride's age and Bride and Co are planning to go to Welsen in its second year - when the school also starts there.which will be the term after Joey goes, so she probably has a passport or has renewed her old one in preparation for that.

Author:  KB [ 03 Aug 2018, 10:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Primula's passport.

ivohenry wrote:
She'd presumably have an Australian one whenshe came to Austria. She may have/had dual nationality.


Not at that point in time. The only passports issued in Australia before 1949 were British passports, and they were only issued to people over the age of 16, so neither Primula nor Daisy would have been issued one before they left Australia in approx 1937. There is some interesting information here.

Author:  MagpieGirl [ 05 Aug 2018, 00:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: Primula's passport.

She was going to be going to the school anyway as part of the move and presumably all of the girls would have needed a passport to travel to Switzerland. I don't think her going to the Oberland was a new idea, she just went earlier than planned

Author:  Alison H [ 05 Aug 2018, 07:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Primula's passport.

She was going to Welsen anyway - she just went early to give Daisy and Laurie some time to settle into their new home when they got back from their honeymoon. Then Laurie said that he'd like her to stay with them for a couple of weeks before school started anyway, because it was important for her to know that their home was her home, which I always thought was incredibly sweet of him - Joey and Jack had said she could say at Freudesheim, and I'm sure the newly-weds would rather have been alone together for a bit longer. It was very kind.

Author:  RubyGates [ 05 Aug 2018, 12:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Primula's passport.

MagpieGirl wrote:
She was going to be going to the school anyway as part of the move and presumably all of the girls would have needed a passport to travel to Switzerland. I don't think her going to the Oberland was a new idea, she just went earlier than planned

I wonder if the school would have had some sort of group passport for the move? I went to Germany on a school trip in the 1980s but didn't have my own passport. The school had a group passport. It's only quite recently that every individual has needed their own passport for travel.

Author:  Katherine [ 29 Sep 2018, 14:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Primula's passport.

As a child in the 80s I was on my parents'. That was what you did then. Didn't get my own until I was 12 and travelled on my own to France.

Author:  Alison H [ 29 Sep 2018, 15:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Primula's passport.

Me too. I didn't have my own passport until I went on a school trip to Paris when I was 12.

Author:  cal562301 [ 06 Oct 2018, 12:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Primula's passport.

My parents didn't holiday abroad when I was young, so they didn't have passports. My sister (two years older) and I both travelled to Europe before they did.

In the early 70s (when I would have been about 16 and 18) I went to Germany on two school exchange trips. On both occasions I got what used to be called a visitors' passport, which was only valid for 1 year. I'm pretty sure they don't issue them anymore. I think they might even have been issued by the Post Office, rather than the form having to be sent off to the Passport Office.

ETA Two further thoughts:

My mum must have had a passport (or equivalent) of some sort as early as 1949, because she holidayed in Switzerland with a friend, as I think I've mentioned before on this board. But I've no idea what the requirements or procedure for obtaining one were in those days. If I find her journal, I'll have a look for clues.

In the early 90s I worked for a firm whose Head Office was in Dublin. When I first travelled there, I was slightly surprised to discover that I didn't need a passport or even Photo ID. I assume tighter controls were introduced after 9/11. I did once (unintentionally!) cause a bit of a panic at the security scanner. I put my hand luggage on the belt and the alarm went off. I worked for a company that specialised in metal industrial protective clothing and had forgotten that I had put some metal fittings in the bag. So, they searched my bag and I had some explaining to do, but it all worked out OK in the end. :roll: :lol:

Author:  Victoria [ 06 Oct 2018, 18:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Primula's passport.

cal562301 wrote:

In the early 70s (when I would have been about 16 and 18) I went to Germany on two school exchange trips. On both occasions I got what used to be called a visitors' passport, which was only valid for 1 year. I'm pretty sure they don't issue them anymore. I think they might even have been issued by the Post Office, rather than the form having to be sent off to the Passport Office.



British Visitor passports were, indeed, issued by the Post Office "over-the-counter". However they were not introduced until 1961 so would not have been available to Primula.

Author:  Mia [ 25 Oct 2018, 21:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Primula's passport.

I was going to start a similar discussion recently as I read something about Lawrence Durrell not being able to have a British passport. This is from Wikipedia:

In 1966 Durrell and many other former and present British residents became classified as non-patrial, as a result of an amendment to the Commonwealth Immigrants Act. The law was covertly intended to reduce migration from India, Pakistan, and the West Indies, but Durrell was also penalized by it and refused citizenship. He had not been told that he needed to "register as a British citizen in 1962 under the Commonwealth Immigrants Act 1962."

As The Guardian reported in 2002, Durrell in 1966 was "one of the best selling, most celebrated English novelists of the late 20th century" and "at the height of his fame." Denied the normal citizenship right to enter or settle in Britain, Durrell had to apply for a visa for each entry. Diplomats were outraged and embarrassed at these events. Sir Patrick Reilly, the ambassador in Paris, was so incensed that he wrote to his Foreign Office superiors: 'I venture to suggest it might be wise to ensure that ministers, both in the Foreign Office and the Home Office, are aware that one of our greatest living writers in the English language is being debarred from the citizenship of the United Kingdom to which he is entitled.'"

Durrell was born in India in 1912. Would this have applied also to the Bettanys?

Author:  ivohenry [ 25 Oct 2018, 22:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Primula's passport.

Joey was born in India, but not sure if Madge and Dick were. In book time we don't get as late as 1962 so maybe they did the proper registration then!

Author:  Alison H [ 26 Oct 2018, 07:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Primula's passport.

From what I can gather - also from Wikipedia, not necessarily the most reliable source of information, but still!! - those who'd been living in Britain for the past few years were exempt from the 1962 Act. Lawrence Durrell was living in France. So Madge, in Wales, and Dick, in Devon, would have been fine - but Joey, in Switzerland, might have been affected.

Author:  Mabel [ 26 Oct 2018, 11:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Primula's passport.

ivohenry wrote:
Joey was born in India, but not sure if Madge and Dick were. In book time we don't get as late as 1962 so maybe they did the proper registration then!


They were. It says about Jo in School 'Like her brother and sister, she had been born in India'.

Author:  Mia [ 26 Oct 2018, 21:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Primula's passport.

Also the first four younger Bettanys - Peggy was in Canada wasn't she?

It's so bizarre. Lawrence Durrell even worked for the Foreign Office!

Author:  bythebrook [ 27 Oct 2018, 02:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Primula's passport.

Mia wrote:
Also the first four younger Bettanys - Peggy was in Canada wasn't she?

It's so bizarre. Lawrence Durrell even worked for the Foreign Office!


Spike Milligan was also affected by the 1962 Act - he was born in India. Apparently he had to take an Oath of Allegiance to qualify for a British passport. He took out Irish citizenship (by descent from his father) instead.

Many 'Indian' families may not have a parent born in the UK for generations (unless children were born when the parents were on furlough). Children would have been sent to the UK for their education, and probably thought of the UK as 'home,' but in reality didn't qualify for British citizenship by birth or by parents' birthplace.

My father was a UK diplomat - and I'm the only one of three to be born in the UK.

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