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 Post subject: Joey's Wedding
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2018, 17:58 
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As EBD never wrote about Joey's wedding, how would you imagine it to be? Traditional as always, as EBD did like tradition throughout the series. She would have worn Madge's veil as part of her outfit. The reason I've thought about this, is I've recently been introduced to some music at work. one of the songs is very much like 'Lavender's Blue' and old English folk song, so after discussing the song today with WhiteQueen, which also appears in the live action Cinderella, I'm convinced the version I keep hearing is probably the 1949 version ( the original has up to 30 verses) which would be have been nice at Joey's wedding, though do you think she may have had more traditional hymns?

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 Post subject: Re: Joey's Wedding
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2018, 18:23 
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Some years back I wrote an Advent offering about how I saw Joey's wedding. I have no idea if it is still accessible somewhere though....

It was in no sense traditional :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Joey's Wedding
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2018, 19:46 
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I wonder how much scope people had in those days to do the unexpected with their weddings?


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 Post subject: Re: Joey's Wedding
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2018, 19:50 
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board/archive/files/StA_Winter_Wedding_Whimsy_for_EmmaT_300511.html


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 Post subject: Re: Joey's Wedding
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2018, 20:09 
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Thank you for digging it out Claire :)

Good grief it was seven years ago!

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 Post subject: Re: Joey's Wedding
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2018, 20:11 
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emma t wrote:
As EBD never wrote about Joey's wedding, how would you imagine it to be? Traditional as always, as EBD did like tradition throughout the series. She would have worn Madge's veil as part of her outfit.
Sorry to quibble, but (back story again of course) we're told in Goes to It that Joey's wedding veil 'of old Venetian lace' was a gift from Luigia and Bianca di Ferrara. At that date a veil usually indicates a full-length frock, and no doubt a large trailing bouquet and a collection of bridesmaids dressed in white (the latter going by the five bridesmaids and three train-bearers that she suggests to Simone for her wedding). No doubt Robin and Daisy were bridesmaids, and probably Primula - who else, do we think?

cestina wrote:
Some years back I wrote an Advent offering about how I saw Joey's wedding. I have no idea if it is still accessible somewhere though....
I remember it well :-)

Edited to correct a typo


Last edited by Noreen on 27 Oct 2018, 23:00, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Joey's Wedding
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2018, 20:18 
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Thanks for reminding me about the veil, this thought was just off the top of my head.
Will read your story; Cestina.

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 Post subject: Re: Joey's Wedding
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2018, 21:50 
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It isn't exactly obvious, emma - more or less a throw-away line in the run-up to Simone's wedding because Jo is lending it to her.


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 Post subject: Re: Joey's Wedding
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2018, 21:57 
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If she had Primula, she'd have had Peggy and Bride as well - and I hope that she stuck to what she'd said about having Grizel as a bridesmaid, because it would have meant so much to Grizel. And, with neither Marie nor Frieda there, maybe it would have meant a lot to Joey as well.

I'd love to know how she got on with Jack's family - we never see her with them.

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 Post subject: Re: Joey's Wedding
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2018, 22:53 
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Have just re-read your story, Cestina - it's as fresh today as it was when you posted it almost 8 years ago!! Thank you, Claire for finding the link to it.

There are odd hints in some of the stories, though please don't ask me to quote chapter and verse, that Joey got on very well with Jack's parents, and his sister Molly, who taught at the school when it was in Tyrol and took Joey and the Robin home to the New Forest with her in one of the early books. She also got on well with Jack's brother, whose name is escaping me, not so well with the latter's wife, Lydia, but I think the whole family found her a little hard to deal with.


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 Post subject: Re: Joey's Wedding
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2018, 23:05 
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I think it's the beginning of Head Girl where Joey and Robin are staying with the Maynards while Madge is on a Guide course. THere's also a short story in one of the Chalet books for Girls - Joey's convict, again Joey is staying with the Maynards and miistakes Mollie's fiance (Ralph Arden this time!) for an escaped convict. There are later references to Jo getting on very well with Jack's parents and brother Bob, though not so well with Lydia.


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 Post subject: Re: Joey's Wedding
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2018, 18:52 
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Joey was a Protestant marrying a Roman Catholic at a time when "mixed marriages" were very much frowned upon. Despite the reference to the veil, it was far more likely that the wedding would have been very low-key.

(Actually the veil seems fairly unlikely in itself. The wedding took place at relatively short notice - and the plans kept changing frpm "marry out-of-hand in Austria" to "marry in Switzerland" to "marry somewhere in England or the Channel islands". How would the di Ferraras know when the wedding was to be or even that there was going to be a wedding? No-one was told when Joey got engaged and, pretty soon afterwards, the School broke up altogether.)


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 Post subject: Re: Joey's Wedding
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2018, 19:30 
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Although when they are about to leave Switzerland Jack says they'll get the next boat to Guernsey, it seems more likely that the wedding would have been in England rather than Guernsey, at Pretty Maids. They would have been married in a Catholic church, which seems likely to have been Jack's home church.

There are quite a lot of inconsistencies in later references, but in the first Guernsey chapter in CS in Exile, she has been married for 10 months, this is around May/June 1939 which puts the wedding about July/August 1938. When they are talking about the school, reopening, at the end of August, Robin is said to have been "fourteen months in England" - EBD seems to consider Guernsey as England!

About the veil - just wondering if it was actually Madge's veil and she'd been given by the di Ferraras? Not very likely,but more so than they somehow gave it directly to Joey


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 Post subject: Re: Joey's Wedding
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2018, 21:53 
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Joey was already engaged when she left Austria so perhaps she had had time to write to her close friends (and Bianca is listed as one of Jo's friends on a number of occasions) and the veil reached her before she left. (Either that or she got it much later and didn't have the heart to tell Bianca and Luigia that she didn't use it.)

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 Post subject: Re: Joey's Wedding
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2018, 22:37 
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I'd think Jo would have had bridesmaids and page boys, if only because she makes such a fuss about Simone having them at her wedding, but I don't think it would have been a big do. Margot Venables died 4 months later so was possibly quite ill at the time, Jo says in one of the Swiss books that she wasn't well herself after all the stress of the flight from Tyrol, and Madge was "very busy" with Josette, so I can't imagine anyone feeling like organising a big occasion. And a lot of their close friends would have been unable to come anyway - and, as Victoria said, the religious issue would have caused some awkwardness.

The Bettanys did have loads of cousins - the aunts' "large families" - but they seemed to have completely forgotten their existence by then :lol: .

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 Post subject: Re: Joey's Wedding
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2018, 23:08 
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Victoria wrote:
Joey was a Protestant marrying a Roman Catholic at a time when "mixed marriages" were very much frowned upon. Despite the reference to the veil, it was far more likely that the wedding would have been very low-key.
This is why I think we don't actually 'see' the wedding - EMBD would have wanted it to be a complete Catholic ceremony, Jo having become a full member of the church, but was there time for this to happen? I'm not at all sur that there was. So in my mind it sort of happens in some 'elastic' stretch of time...


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 Post subject: Re: Joey's Wedding
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2018, 23:28 
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I think Jo would have converted after the wedding. She'd need a period of instruction first , don't know how long that would take. She'd have some brief instruction if still C of E before marrying, including promising to bring up any children as Catholics. She tells Madge she can't ask her to be godmother because of this, rather giving the impression she herself had not yet converted. I think her conversion must have been in the gap between CS goes to it and Highland twins, She says in a newsletter that it happened "in a book that never saw the light of day" which would have to be then. So maybe she planned or even started it but then decided to jump a couple of years and left it. An incomplete book in that gap could also have included the story of Jean Mackenzie, as on another thread.


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 Post subject: Re: Joey's Wedding
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2018, 08:25 
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I also had the impression Jo hadn't converted when the triplets were born, because of her comment to Madge.

Converting to another religion was quite a controversial thing to do then. (My grandma converted when she got engaged to my grandad, which was at around the same time as Joey and Jack got together.) I'm not sure the publishers would have been too keen on EBD going into it in a children's book. Or maybe she didn't want to write about something that would have been very personal for her. Strangely, the subject never comes up when Len and Reg get engaged.

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 Post subject: Re: Joey's Wedding
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2018, 17:14 
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My dad converted in 1943, mainly I think because he knew Mum wanted a full Catholic ceremony with a nuptial Mass, as that wouldn't have been allowed if he'd not been Catholic. Jack may have felt the same and wanted Jo to convert beforehand, but, even then, it would have been a no-frills wedding during the war.

Someone mentioned Jo needing a period of instruction before the wedding, but things weren't quite as organised and efficient in those days, and I know Dad certainly had very little preparation before he married Mum. There was hardly time for that, since he was away with the troops in Belgium at that point, and Mum was in the ATS.



ETA To correct the date.

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 Post subject: Re: Joey's Wedding
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2018, 04:19 
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I've always pictured their wedding as fairly quick and low key. I get the feeling that they want to get married quickly - they were considering marrying in Switzerland except for the bureaucratic complications. The family was still in the process of a rushed international move with a pile of kids and two businesses, Joey was still suffering from the mental effect of their adventures, and most of their friends were scattered. And once they were married, Jack could officially take charge of looking after Joey, which would free up Madge and Jem a bit.

They would be doing a Catholic wedding, but not a full nuptial mass, and they didn't really know many people in the area yet (and those they did were mostly Protestant).

So - probably the priest coming to them, with just family and a few nearby friends along (probably Rosalie and Grizel and a few doctors). Jack's parents would travel to Guernsey if they could manage it. Joey in a fairly simple dress that could be made or altered at home in a few days, with a veil given by someone. Robin as bridesmaid, Jem to give her away. Then back to Madge and Jem's home for a meal prepared by Marie.

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