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Joey's Wedding
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Author:  emma t [ 04 Nov 2018, 19:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey's Wedding

If the wedding was at Pretty Maids, wouldn't there have been issues with travel? I thought they ended up in Guernsey, and so would have been married there. Plus, as Joey is still recovering from their flight from Austria, any more travel might have been an added strain.

Author:  Noreen [ 04 Nov 2018, 20:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey's Wedding

emma t wrote:
If the wedding was at Pretty Maids, wouldn't there have been issues with travel? I thought they ended up in Guernsey, and so would have been married there. Plus, as Joey is still recovering from their flight from Austria, any more travel might have been an added strain.
Yes, travel may have been an additional strain for Joey, and yes, petrol was the first thing to be rationed when war was declared on 1 September 1939 - but as the wedding must have taken place before WW2 was declared, there should have been no issues with travel (and the school and the Russells, Lucys, Ozannes and Chesters had yet to move to England anyway). The ideal thing about Pretty Maids is that Jo and Jack might have had problems having a Catholic wedding in Guernsey where neither of them was known, but much less likely to in Jack's home area.

One does see why Elinor didn't tackle this event...

Author:  Alison H [ 05 Nov 2018, 08:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey's Wedding

I'd never really thought of all this before! I'd just assumed that the book was long enough already, although it did seem odd that, having written such a detailed description of Janie Temple's wedding, she didn't write about her next heroine's wedding. But, yes, it could have got horrendously complicated!

A civil marriage would have been an option for a mixed faith couple who weren't particularly religious, but I'm sure Jo and Jack would have wanted a church ceremony.

Author:  Noreen [ 05 Nov 2018, 09:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey's Wedding

I certainly hadn't thought through the details, especially the timings of various events - my main recollection of reading Exile for the first time was that I thought it was an absolute swizz that we didn't get to see the wedding, and I suspect that that's most people's reaction. :-)

Good point about a civil marriage - and of course, had they married in Tyrol as Jem originally suggested, they would have had to have that as well.

Author:  emma t [ 05 Nov 2018, 22:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey's Wedding

Alison H wrote:
I'd never really thought of all this before! I'd just assumed that the book was long enough already, although it did seem odd that, having written such a detailed description of Janie Temple's wedding, she didn't write about her next heroine's wedding. But, yes, it could have got horrendously complicated!

A civil marriage would have been an option for a mixed faith couple who weren't particularly religious, but I'm sure Jo and Jack would have wanted a church ceremony.


Just like everything else we discuss in general of what she did write / didn't write :) or could have been :D I'll bet EBD didn't think people would be discussing them at such length years later.

Author:  Noreen [ 05 Nov 2018, 23:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey's Wedding

I'll bet she didn't - and it's surely an indication of how appealing her books are. It's often the case that authors' popularity slips a bit in the years immediately following their death, but I'm not sure that Elinor's ever did.

Author:  bythebrook [ 06 Nov 2018, 01:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey's Wedding

Noreen wrote:
I'll bet she didn't - and it's surely an indication of how appealing her books are. It's often the case that authors' popularity slips a bit in the years immediately following their death, but I'm not sure that Elinor's ever did.


Although EBD's original readership would have been mainly children, and most of her readers today would be adults (sometimes the same people, just older). I'm an adult convert, I only discovered the series in the early 1990s, with the Armada paperbacks.

There are a large number of adults who enjoy reading children's books - the publishers of Harry Potter brought out 'adult' editions with subdued cover art. But that might have been an extreme case, considering the popularity of the Potterverse.

Author:  jennifer [ 06 Nov 2018, 02:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey's Wedding

Under more normal circumstances I can see Joey revelling in a big fancy wedding - the dress, the cake, the bridesmaids, the decorations, being the centre of attention and having everyone fuss over her. If things had gone as planned I think they'd have had an engagement long enough to cover Joey's conversion, and then had the big church do.

I see the wedding in Guernsey rather than Pretty Maids for the sake of Joey's family - the Russells have just done a chaotic international move with two businesses and a household with nine children (and a distraught Joey), and I think Madge was pregnant at this point. Taking a boat and train journey to England for a wedding ceremony in the middle of that would have been a lot harder than Mr and Mrs Maynard coming to Guernsey.

Author:  Mabel [ 06 Nov 2018, 13:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey's Wedding

jennifer wrote:
Under more normal circumstances I can see Joey revelling in a big fancy wedding - the dress, the cake, the bridesmaids, the decorations, being the centre of attention and having everyone fuss over her. If things had gone as planned I think they'd have had an engagement long enough to cover Joey's conversion, and then had the big church do.


I wonder. Madge's wedding, after all, was pretty low key. And Joey would have been focussed on Jack, not anyone else. So I think that the Joey of Exile would have been content with something quite lowkey, even in other circumstances, although she clearly did have a veil and bridesmaids (but so did Madge). However, by the time you get to the Joey of the last years, I agree that Joey would have wanted to be the centre of attention even more than any bride automatically is, and the retrospective 'memories' might even have been adapted accordingly. Joey in Exile was still what I think of as 'real Jo', rather than 'caricature Joey' of the later books.

Author:  Victoria [ 06 Nov 2018, 23:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey's Wedding

Joey and Jack travel go straight to Guernsey (well, as straight as travelling across Europe could be) from Switzerland. Madge and Co. plus the San (minus Dr Russell) are already there. The plan is to get married a couple of weeks later.

Given that Madge is pregnant, Joey is unwell from the stress, Margot Venables is unwell generally plus there are a whole crowd of children and it is traditional that weddings are held at the bride's home rather than the groom's, that would strongly suggest that the wedding was in Guernsey. The timing of "a couple of weeks" also suggests a marriage by special licence rather than by banns, and, in the circumstances, a civil wedding with a "blessing" afterwards (since there's also no time for religious instruction etc) seems likely.

The timing of a couple of weeks isn't going to allow much time for producing anything fancy in the way of weddings either.

Now we need to work out who gave away Joey!

Author:  Nyota [ 06 Nov 2018, 23:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey's Wedding

Based on the description of Daisy’s wedding, it’s likely that Joey had a small affair with everyone having some involvement.

Possibly Jem gave her away, and her bridesmaids would have been Robin, Daisy and the other little girls. The staff at the San were likely to have been the guests.

Author:  Audrey25 [ 07 Nov 2018, 02:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey's Wedding

I cannot imagine anyone but Jem giving her away unless he could not be at the wedding for some reason.

Author:  Alison H [ 07 Nov 2018, 08:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey's Wedding

Years and years ago, someone wrote a short drabble about Madge feeling sad that Dick wasn't there to give her away on her wedding day. I think Herr Marani gave her away.

Jem and Jack must both have become experts! I think Jack gave Biddy away, and possibly Gillian as well, and Jem must have given Juliet away.

Author:  Mrs Redboots [ 24 Nov 2018, 19:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey's Wedding

Nyota wrote:
Possibly Jem gave her away, and her bridesmaids would have been Robin, Daisy and the other little girls. The staff at the San were likely to have been the guests.


Which leads to me to wonder whether, when Joey recommends that Simone not ask Sybil to be one of her bridesmaids, on the grounds that this could prove disruptive, she is speaking from hard-earned personal experience here!

Author:  Victoria [ 25 Nov 2018, 02:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey's Wedding

Audrey25 wrote:
I cannot imagine anyone but Jem giving her away unless he could not be at the wedding for some reason.


It is the fact that Jem is still in Austria at the time Jack and Joey leave Switzerland that makes me wonder whether he would have been in Guernsey by the time of a wedding a couple of weeks later.

Author:  ivohenry [ 25 Nov 2018, 10:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey's Wedding

Jem was planning to to leave "in the next week or two" in the letter we see while Joey and Jack are still in Switzerland, so coud well have been there in time for the wedding which may not have been that soon. Given Joey's health when they leave Switzerland, she's likely to have needed a while to recover from a pretty long journey home.

Author:  Miriam [ 26 Nov 2018, 15:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey's Wedding

This is based on a lot of speculation, and depending on EBD being accurate(!), but...:

At the beginning of the second half of Exile Jo has been married for ten months.

The school reopens in September of that year.

At the beginning of the second half of Exile, Jo does not know about the imminent plans to reopen the school.

The house that Madge has rented/purchased needs a lot of work doing to it.

In order for the school to open in September, the latest this could have happened was June or early July

It isn't clear exactly when they escaped from Tyrol, but is was definately after the Anshluss (12th March), and after the start of the summer term, so probably around May or June

They were about two week escaping, and then stayed a further period of at least a week in Switzerland, probably bring it up to June or July.

Conclusion: Jo and Jack probably got married in August or September 1938. More likely to have been September, to give Jo time to recover. More liely to have been in Gurnsey, since I don't think anyone was prepared to travel to England, and Jem and Jack were both very busy getting the San going again.

Author:  ivohenry [ 26 Nov 2018, 19:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey's Wedding

Part 2 of Exile must be at latest early June, more likely May. Con Stewart's letter says "Jeanne de Lachenais finishes at the Sorbonne in June" which sounds as though it isn't June yet. If it's May and Jo has been married 10 months that puts her wedding previous July, which would fit. Josette was born 2 months after the wedding, so about September, though I think EBD gives her about 4 different birthdays in later books!

I don't think we can pin it all down very accurately, but it's fun to try!

Author:  Victoria [ 17 Mar 2019, 16:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey's Wedding

I've just been reading "Rescue".

"We married almost as soon as we got to Guernsey" (Chapter VIII "What Shall We Do?" p128 Armada, p102 Chambers, 118 GGB)

which gives us canon for where the wedding took place.

Author:  Noreen [ 17 Mar 2019, 18:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Joey's Wedding

Hmmm - I still wouldn't call that cast-iron! But well-spotted :-)

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