Great Mysteries of Chalet School land

Joyce · **Posted:** 21 Apr 2017, 10:15

ivohenry wrote:

Since she then becomes Blossom Willoughby's aunt, we have to assume it's her mother's only brother, Noel Atherton. As far as we know, her father Nigel doesn't have actual siblings, though he has grown up with his brother's family as if they were siblings. If she married Tim or Peter Willoughby they might all consider them as Blossom's uncles, though actually they are second cousins.

So what would the age gap have been between Beth and Noel?

Cheers,
Joyce

Alison H · **Posted:** 21 Apr 2017, 10:27

Not that much. He was a very young uncle, a good 10 years younger than Blossom's mother Rosamund. I haven't got the books with me, but I think Rosamund Atherton was only in her early 20s when she got married, and that was just after Janie and Julian's wedding, at which Beth was old enough to be one of the bridesmaids. So Noel can't have been more than 10 years older than her, probably less, and EBD likes the bloke to be at least a few years older than the woman.

Joyce · **Posted:** 22 Apr 2017, 04:47

Alison H wrote:

Not that much. He was a very young uncle, a good 10 years younger than Blossom's mother Rosamund. I haven't got the books with me, but I think Rosamund Atherton was only in her early 20s when she got married, and that was just after Janie and Julian's wedding, at which Beth was old enough to be one of the bridesmaids. So Noel can't have been more than 10 years older than her, probably less, and EBD likes the bloke to be at least a few years older than the woman.

She does like the much older man growing up with young girl who he then falls in love with and marries her years later after she realises her own feelings - Joey/Jack, Marie/Eugen, Len/Reg.

Though I always thought it was a bit icky that Joey says Len has liked Reg since they 'were tinies of four' and he was about 12/13. One hopes he did not 'like' her at that age!

I imagine the Beth/Noel relationship is much the same. If he was about 10-12 years older than Beth, he would indeed have known her since she was literally a baby.

Cheers,
Joyce

Noreen · **Posted:** 22 Apr 2017, 10:01

Joyce wrote:

She does like the much older man growing up with young girl who he then falls in love with and marries her years later after she realises her own feelings - Joey/Jack, Marie/Eugen, Len/Reg.

Though I always thought it was a bit icky that Joey says Len has liked Reg since they 'were tinies of four' and he was about 12/13. One hopes he did not 'like' her at that age!

Fortunately, as they're both child characters in a children's book of that era, 'like' will mean little more than that they don't spend all their time arguing.

As has been commented before, the 'older male waiting for the younger female to grow up and realise that he loves her and she loves him in return' is a fairly common trope of girls' fiction, especially in the Victorian/ Edwardian eras. To some extent it's reflective of real life in the middle classes of those eras: a middle-class man would expect to support a wife and children, so tended to be at least five-ten years older because he had usually had to make some progress in his career (and salary).

RubyGates · **Posted:** 22 Apr 2017, 12:53

What was it exactly that Florence Nightingale and her younger sister Parth must have heard on winter nights?
I've never worked that one out nor those two geographical anagrams. Apologies for not being able to remember which book they are from and not sure if they were from a paper games night or a sale.

ivohenry · **Posted:** 22 Apr 2017, 13:05

I think the answer to that one was The Cricket on the Hearth. As far as I remember the answers were all book titles, and that's one by Dickens.

(Incidentally I always thought Parth was an odd name till I found it was short for Parthenope)

Can't remember the geog anagrams but I think there was one I didn't get

fio · **Posted:** 22 Apr 2017, 17:29

[quote="ivohenry]
(Incidentally I always thought Parth was an odd name till I found it was short for Parthenope)[/quote]
I suspect she was grateful that it wasn't short for Parthenon.................!!!

Joyce · **Posted:** 23 Apr 2017, 02:43

ivohenry wrote:

I think the answer to that one was The Cricket on the Hearth. As far as I remember the answers were all book titles, and that's one by Dickens.

I spent ages as a child trying to figure out the answers for the competitions in Bride and Coming of Age. Thank God for the Internet!

But what on earth is this supposed to be:

Quote:

Miss Derwent had arranged a ‘Picture Gallery’ down one side and Bride paused with Lesley and Dora to giggle appreciatively over a pile of seventeen lumps of sugar which represented one picture.
‘Think they’ll guess it?’ Bride asked.
‘Some of them may, but lots won’t. They’ll never think of counting,’ Lesley said. ‘As for that awful candle,’ she pointed to one which had been allowed to gutter wildly and was liberally wreathed in trails of wax as a result, ‘I defy anyone to guess what it’s supposed to mean!’

Cheers,
Joyce

cestina · **Posted:** 23 Apr 2017, 09:28

After a recent conversation with my almost 100 year old neighbour (August, fingers crossed) when she reminded me that her generation, and mine too when I was a child, never spoke of films and cinemas but of "going to the pictures" and "did you see that picture?" I was moved to wonder what was in the "picture gallery".

Do we have any more information on that and could it have been films rather than paintings as I have always assumed? Because if so, there was a well-known book, later a film, called "Seventeen" by the American author Booth Tarkington. It was apparently immensely popular for years. (Thanks Google).

And if it was films, maybe we can unravel the wax candle mystery too....

Noreen · **Posted:** 23 Apr 2017, 09:42

What an absolutely ingenious answer, cestina! And we know that EMBD had at least some interest in cinema as well as the theatre. I'm still stumped about the candle, though - I'd got as far as thinking that this was in the same territory as Annied's Victorian picture puzzles, and the fact that the trails of wax down a candle were sometimes called 'winding sheets', but no further.

abbeybufo · **Posted:** 23 Apr 2017, 13:35

Joyce wrote:

ivohenry wrote:

I think the answer to that one was The Cricket on the Hearth. As far as I remember the answers were all book titles, and that's one by Dickens.

I spent ages as a child trying to figure out the answers for the competitions in Bride and Coming of Age. Thank God for the Internet!

But what on earth is this supposed to be:

Quote:

Miss Derwent had arranged a ‘Picture Gallery’ down one side and Bride paused with Lesley and Dora to giggle appreciatively over a pile of seventeen lumps of sugar which represented one picture.
‘Think they’ll guess it?’ Bride asked.
‘Some of them may, but lots won’t. They’ll never think of counting,’ Lesley said. ‘As for that awful candle,’ she pointed to one which had been allowed to gutter wildly and was liberally wreathed in trails of wax as a result, ‘I defy anyone to guess what it’s supposed to mean!’

Cheers,
Joyce

The sugar lumps are 'Sweet Seventeen' but I'm not sure about the candle...

ivohenry · **Posted:** 23 Apr 2017, 13:43

Candle in the wind - T H White?
Shilling for candles - Josephine Tey?

abbeybufo · **Posted:** 23 Apr 2017, 13:48

ivohenry wrote:

Candle in the wind - T H White?
Shilling for candles - Josephine Tey?

I'd forgotten Candle in the Wind. That's what I'm plumping for.

More details on Sweet Seventeen here

Terrygo · **Posted:** 23 Apr 2017, 14:20

I thought it was sweet seventeen, trying to check on the internet led me to some rather dubious sites lol.

abbeybufo · **Posted:** 23 Apr 2017, 15:19

Terrygo wrote:

I thought it was sweet seventeen, trying to check on the internet led me to some rather dubious sites lol.

Yes, even when you add 'book' it offers some odd ones!

cestina · **Posted:** 23 Apr 2017, 18:14

But surely those are all books? And it does say "...represented one picture"? So shouldn't the answers be either paintings or, with my tentative theory, films?

tartan-belle · **Posted:** 23 Apr 2017, 19:31

Not related to the above conversation but:

Did Katharine Gordon ever get to Wimbledon?
Did Lavender continue laughing after she left school?
What happened to Lilamani?

Joyce · **Posted:** 24 Apr 2017, 10:23

cestina wrote:

But surely those are all books? And it does say "...represented one picture"? So shouldn't the answers be either paintings or, with my tentative theory, films?

I always thought so as well. Because the other competition was guessing book titles, then this one would be painting/film titles.

However, to be fair to everyone wouldn't they have to be reasonably well known paintings?

I did find one painting on Google Images called Sweet Seventeen by Charles Sillem Lidderdale whom I have never heard of before, but may have been popular during EBD's time.

And that may be the problem. That she assumed the reader would be familiar with what was well known in her time, but since then has gradually lost popularity.

Cheers,
Joyce

cestina · **Posted:** 24 Apr 2017, 10:27

Joyce wrote:

cestina wrote:

But surely those are all books? And it does say "...represented one picture"? So shouldn't the answers be either paintings or, with my tentative theory, films?

I always thought so as well. Because the other competition was guessing book titles, then this one would be painting/film titles.

However, to be fair to everyone wouldn't they have to be reasonably well known paintings?

I did find one painting on Google Images called Sweet Seventeen by Charles Sillem Lidderdale whom I have never heard of before, but may have been popular during EBD's time.

And that may be the problem. That she assumed the reader would be familiar with what was well known in her time, but since then has gradually lost popularity.

Cheers,
Joyce

Ah yes - look, it could almost be Marie or Wanda!

fibreclaire · **Posted:** 25 Apr 2017, 00:50

I thought the candle was an oblique reference to Miss Haversham in Great Expectations - wasnt it a quote from there?

Great Mysteries of Chalet School land

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