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 Post subject: Books: Joey and Co. in Tirol
PostPosted: 27 Nov 2017, 23:46 
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Indulging in a midnight feast
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Back after a week’s hiatus with the latest discussion thread. This week it’s Joey and Co. in Tirol, first published in 1960 and covering the summer holidays just after Theodora. Following their acquisition of the former St Scholastika’s building on the shore of the Tiernsee (see Coming of Age for details), the Maynard family head off to spend the summer holidays there and make the acquaintance of the Richardsons, who go on to become de facto members of the clan for the rest of the series. Notable events:

The book opens eight weeks after the birth of the youngest Maynards, Geoff and Phil. Jo is in bed being scolded by Madge, who has flown over to Switzerland post haste with Jem after an incident in which Mike, while out on a walk with his family, climbed down a precipice to examine a bird’s nest and got stuck. The shock had caused Jo to faint for two hours, making everyone, especially Jack, frantic with worry.
Madge informs Jo that she and Jem will be taking Mike, Felix, Felicity and Cecil back to Wales with them for the holidays while the other Maynards go to the Tiernsee, in order to take some responsibility off Jo’s shoulders and also to keep Mike separated from Jack for the time being, as Jack has been so furious with Mike that he has had to be kept apart from him. Jo agrees to the children going for three or four weeks, but flatly refuses to let them be away for the entire holiday, and on hearing how Mike has been cold-shouldered by the rest of the family over the incident, insists that he be sent to her so that she can reassure him.
We also learn that Peggy Bettany is engaged to Giles Winterton, and as they will be living in the West Indies afterwards due to Giles’s posting there, everyone intends to make the wedding to see Peggy one last time.
Winnie Embury insists on taking Steve and Charles to join her own boys for the first four weeks of the holidays, and so only the triplets and youngest twins accompany Jack and Jo to Die Blumen (the old St Scholastika’s building) at the Tiernsee.
On the first morning, Len – sporting a ponytail in an attempt at trying something new with her hair – decides to go for a walk along the lake before Frühstuck. Con and Margot join her, and as they walk along the path between Seespitz and Briesau, they collide with a trio of children; Roger, Ruey and Roddy Richardson.
Roger falls on a stone in the collision and cuts his shin so badly he severs an artery. Len and Margot administer first aid to stop the bleeding while Con signals to Jack, whom she has just spotted rowing out on the lake. He rows over quickly and takes Roger back to Die Blumen to properly tend to the cut, while Con takes Roddy round by the path and Len and Margot accompany Ruey to the Richardsons’ chalet in the Tiern Pass in order to get Roger’s bed ready for him.
Len and Margot are shocked at the strictly utilitarian nature of the Richardsons’ furnishings and the lack of decoration. Ruey explains that she has kept house for the family since her mother died, and that Roger and Roddy are so messy and careless that she prefers to keep things as simple as possible as it makes less work for her. She explains that her father is an astronomer, who is currently up on the Tiernjoch and probably won’t return for a day or two.
Jack returns with Roger, and instructs him to be put to bed. He tells the triplets to stay and help Ruey keep an eye on him for the day, and Anna will come over to relieve them that evening.
As the day goes on, Roger begins to develop a temperature, and the girls try to keep it down by sponging him down while Roddy runs to the Stephanie to phone Jack, who comes over and gives him a dose. He sends the triplets back off to Die Blumen, and spends the night watching over Roger, whose temperature drops back to normal, so that he is able to reassure Ruey and Roddy the next morning before departing back home himself.
Jo, the triplets and the twins go to spend the day at the chalet, and Ruey asks Jo for advice on how to make the chalet more homely. Jo agrees that the chalet certainly needs it, and when Ruey points out that the boys are too messy for her to keep things nice, Jo says that in that case it’s high time they learnt to be more careful.
By the next day, the triplets, Jo, Ruey and Roddy are busy painting the floors, putting up curtains, polishing the furniture and cleaning the china. Professor Richardson finally arrives back from the Tiernjoch and is stunned at the sight of them.
Jo and Jack explain to the Professor what happened to Roger, but the Professor is too wrapped up in his work to take in much of what is going on. He gives Ruey a cheque to cover their expenses for the next few days, and then disappears off back up the Tiernjoch, much to Jo and Jack’s indignation. Jo vows to give him a piece of her mind the next time she sees him, and decides that if the situation continues she will take the three children back to Die Blumen with them to ensure they are properly looked after.
The three Rs join the Maynards at Die Blumen, and Roger’s cut heals up. Jack goes back to the San in Switzerland for a few days, and puts Steve and Charles in the train at Basle, where they are met at Innsbruck by Jo and the rest. Jo also takes the opportunity to buy Ruey some new clothes and have her hair cut, believing that it is high time she begins to take more of an interest in her appearance and not be wandering about all anyhow.
That night, Ruey, who is sharing a bedroom with Len, is about to get into bed without either brushing her hair or saying her prayers when Len points it out. When Ruey protests, Len says that going to bed without brushing her hair will make a mess of her pillow case, and that going to bed without saying at least a thank you to God for all that she has had done for her that day would be ungrateful. Ruey, having never thought of such points before, does as she as told and then gets into bed. Len suggests that she ask her father to let her come to the Chalet School, as she thinks it will be good for her.
The next day, the party – minus the twins – go for an expedition up to the Sonnalpe to see Robin’s Cave (called Joey’s Cave here). As they have a picnic lunch near the cave entrance before going in, two men pass them, and Len thinks they look rather taken aback to see the party there.
After exploring the cave, the party regroups outside for coffee, and then Jo spots that a mist is coming up. She hurries everyone off down the path at once, but Roddy walks into a tree branch, and in the resulting commotion they lose their place and end up missing the path back to the Sonnalpe. At last Jo feels a fence to her left, and a clock chime and the hoot of the lake steamer tells them that they have come right down the mountain and come out at the village of St Scholastika. The mist lifts enough then for them to get back to Die Blumen with no harm done.
The following evening, everyone goes out for a row on the lake. They spot the Professor standing on the bank waiting for the steamer and hail him. When they reach him, he blandly informs them that he is going away for some time, possibly a year or two, and asks Jo if she and Jack would look after the three Rs until the end of the holidays. He has entered Roger and Roddy as boarders at their present school, and has asked Ruey’s Headmistress to find somewhere for her to stay.
Ruey is furious at being treated in such a casual manner and rages at him that she can go to the Chalet School, as the Maynards will look after her better than he will. The Professor shrugs off her anger and says she can go to the Chalet School if she wants to. Jo, wildly indignant on behalf of the three Rs, suggests that she and the Professor go back to his chalet to discuss the situation privately, and sends the rest off to wait for her at the Kron Prinz Karl.
It is arranged that Jo and Jack will assume legal guardianship of the three Richardsons while the Professor is away. Roger, privately discussing the matter with Jo, lets slip that the Professor is going away because he has heard that a certain country is shortly planning to send up the first manned spacecraft, and he intends to be on it. Jo is appalled, but reassures Roger that she and Jack will look after the Richardsons, and that Jack and the Professor are down in Innsbruck at that moment signing and sealing everything legally. Roger also reveals that the Professor’s full name is George Theophilus Archibald Baynard Richardson.
The party then has a swimming race, in which Jo and Roger tie for first place. When Len sits down to rest after it, she cuts her hand on a sealed box which Roger recognises as belonging to his father, and which he knows is kept locked up in a safe most of the time. Puzzled, they resolve to ask the Professor about it when he and Jack return. However, Jack returns alone, saying the Professor wanted to meet a friend and would catch a later train. He never turns up again.
The three Rs and the Maynard children go over to the Richardsons’ chalet to empty it of their belongings as the lease is almost up. Roger goes to the spring to fetch some water and meets a party of Viennese hikers, whom he brings back to the chalet for a drink, much to Len’s annoyance. Roger informs her and Ruey in an aside that the hikers told him that there has just been an armed robbery at a bank in Germany, and although the police caught one of the gang, the other two got away and are believed to be heading towards the Tiern Pass. Len scoffs, but Ruey is fearful.
After spending the afternoon clearing up, Stephen and Charles are on the verandah when Charles spots two injured men coming along the Pass towards the chalet. Instantly assuming they are the robbers, he and Stephen tell the others, and the party arm themselves with various household implements. As the two men pass the chalet, the party assaults them, just as Jo and Jack arrive on the scene.
It transpires that the two men are in fact innocent hikers from Birmingham, and as Jo explains in a letter to Madge detailing the event, they had been caught in a minor landslide on the Tiern Pass, hence the injuries. Jack takes them back to Die Blumen to see to them and offers them accommodation for the night, and makes the entire party apologise to them. The next day they are made to do all of Anna and Rösli’s work as punishment while they go off to Innsbruck.
The post arrives, and Roger finally receives a letter from the Professor, however the handwriting is so bad that neither he, Ruey, Roddy, Len or Con can make head nor tail of it, nor can they make out where it was sent from.
Len and Con have also received a letter from Josette, to whom they had written to warn that Jo was sending Madge a letter jokingly accusing her of causing the ceiling of the Speisesaal at Freudesheim to collapse, as she had slept in the room above when she had come over to stay. Josette reports that Madge was so furious that she intends to try a water cure to lose weight, despite Jem telling her it was all rot and she suited him fine as she was. The letter also contains the news that Bride is engaged to a young barrister, Simon Carrington, although they won’t be married for a while yet as he is just starting out.
Jo calls to the girls then to tell them that Daisy and Laurie Rosomon are coming to stay with their children, and proposes that they make one last expedition to the salt mines at Hall before the rest of the younger Maynards join them.
Jack takes the children to visit the salt mines, and Jo asks Roger before they depart if she can have the Professor’s letter and see if she has any better luck deciphering it. When they return, however, she tells them that she has only been able to make out a word here and there, and that she believes he is somewhere in the Himalayas.
That night, Charles comes to wake Len, as he is in great pain and is afraid of waking Joey as they had been told not to worry her. Len, on finding that he has tummy pains, gives him some hot milk and a Disprin and a hot water bottle, but after sitting with him for a while and finding no improvement, she finally goes for Jack, who diagnoses an acute appendix. He phones up the Sonnalpe San, and he and Jo accompany Charles up to it after thanking Len for what she has done.
Charles comes safely through the operation to remove his appendix and remains up at the San. Meanwhile, the Rosomons arrive, and Daisy joins the triplets and Ruey one evening and drops the bombshell that the Richardsons are cousins of Laurie’s. One of Laurie’s maternal uncles had married and had two sons and a daughter. The uncle and sons had died, and when the daughter met a man she wanted to marry, her controlling mother forbade it. The daughter eloped and was consequently cut off from the family and lost all contact. Jo had mentioned in a letter to Daisy that the Professor’s name was George Theophilus Archibald Baynard Richardson, and Laurie had immediately recognised it as the name of the man his cousin had eloped with.
Daisy assures Ruey that although the Maynards will remain the Richardsons’ guardians, she wants them to feel that they have a home with the Rosomons as well. Stunned, Ruey goes away to digest this information by herself.
The party begins to prepare to return to Switzerland, and Jo receives a letter from Miss Annersley with the news that the school will be starting a Kindergarten that term, as they have just bought a hotel on the Platz for it, with a separate wing for Herr Laubach to live in. Kathie Robertson will be Head of it, and prospective pupils include Felix and Felicity, the three Morris children, Lucy Peters, Pierre de Bersac, Carlotta von Ahlen and possibly Kevin and Kester Russell, as well as various others from the Platz and San. Miss Annersley also states that they have hired Rosalind Yolland to take Herr Laubach’s place.

So, thoughts on this holiday book? What do you think of the three Rs, their lifestyle, and the Professor? Did you like the robbers subplot? What about the trips up to the cave and the salt mines? The revelation about the Richardsons being related to the Rosomons? Charles’s appendicitis?

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 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey and Co. in Tirol
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2017, 00:21 
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Surely that should be Winifred Embury because she hates being called Winnie? :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey and Co. in Tirol
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2017, 08:44 
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It's lovely to be back in Tyrol, but a lot of things in this book annoy me! Even leaving aside the bizarre spaceship story (and what was in the mysterious box?!), and the unlikely long-lost cousin plot, I want to scream when Joey says she'll feel OK about leaving Charles with the Rosomons because Laurie's a doctor. What about Daisy? And, if I'd been Ruey, I would have told Len exactly where to shove her hairbrush and her lectures about prayers, and I wouldn't have been very impressed with Con and Margot moaning at me for not making the holiday home "pretty", either. As for Len and Charles not waking their parents in the night when Charles was seriously ill ... OK, Charles was young enough to have taken Jack's warnings about not disturbing Joey's sleep literally, but surely Len should have had the sense to realise that he meant not to disturb them by making unnecessary noise or for something trivial, not if someone was unwell.

The best thing about this book is being back in Tyrol. And the adventures are quite good fun. And I think Roger quite fancied Len - I wish she'd ended up with him and not Reg!

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 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey and Co. in Tirol
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2017, 16:07 
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I thought that Jack was truly irresponsible in this book when he told his children not to disturb them because their parents needed the sleep.

And after doing everything she could, Len is told by her father to make herself useful! I ask you?

They don't get any parenting awards from me, unless there's one for the most selfish parents of the year.

It honestly seems to me that Anna is a far better mother to the children than Jo could ever be.

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A certain edge when she spoke of Mrs Maynard, certainly, but, after all, not everyone could love Joey.
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 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey and Co. in Tirol
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2017, 17:40 
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This is one of the books I don't have, and don't remember reading.
So judging it just by the resume, what an appallingly dysfunctional family the Maynards seem! I won't be rushing to find a copy....


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey and Co. in Tirol
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2017, 17:54 
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To be fair to Jack, I took it to mean not to disturb them by yelling and shouting at crack of dawn, and not to wake them up to settle any minor arguments or to ask if they wanted a cup of tea. He wasn't to know that one of the children was going to develop a life-threatening illness during the night, and I think Len, at nearly 15, should have had the sense to realise that. Where I think Jack does very poorly as a parent is in his treatment of Mike, at the start of the book - he's apparently too angry to deal with him, even though the incident in which Mike fell over a cliff was more of an accident than anything else, and it's left to Len to stop the poor kid from feeling completely unwanted. But, yes, I think Jeremy Kyle or Oprah would find plenty of material from the Maynards!

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 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey and Co. in Tirol
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2017, 18:45 
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This is the first time I've actually managed to finish this book, I've always struggled to get past the opening chapter before. Is it me, or is a lot of the dialogue by this point - especially Jo's - really...over the top and flamboyant? Hard to describe what I mean, but a prime example is that rigmarole between Jo and Rosalie about tombstones at the beginning of Theodora. There's the same kind of thing in the opening chapter of this book between Jo and Madge, and I feel like shouting 'Get ON with it!'

The Maynards seem absolutely incapable of comprehending that not everyone shares their way of living. Why *should* Ruey waste time and money on decoration for a chalet they've only rented for a few weeks, and which they literally only use for eating and sleeping in?

That whole thing about Madge's weight is horrible, but yay for Jem telling her he likes her as she is. Sucks to you, Jo.

On Charles's appendicitis: Len's just fed him milk, wouldn't that have screwed up the anaesthetic for his operation?

Oh, and that notion that Scots can apparently tell which way is north by sheer instinct is a mystery to this born and bred Weegie. I can only tell you where north is if the sun's out, or with a compass, same as anyone else.

TLDR: this remains one of if not my least favourite books in the entire series.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey and Co. in Tirol
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2017, 19:45 
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Echoing others here in that I enjoy the return to Tyrol and seeing more of the Maynard at home but find the whole *collecting* of the Richardsons into the Maynard clan completely unrealistic. Also the far-fetchedness of the Richardsons being related to the Rosomon really irritates me - not another long lost relative :roll: !


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey and Co. in Tirol
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2017, 20:17 
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Echoes others - why should Ruey spend her holiday decorating a holiday home; surprised she didn't resent Len telling her to say her prayers, brush her hair.

Professor Richardson is obviously not fit to be a parent and the Maynards seem more to care for their potential wards than their own children.

I find Joey going into a two hour faint when she sees Mike disappear over a cliff particularly aggravating and unreal. A friend had a similar experience - the family was skiing and a crevasse suddenly opened up and her son disappeared into it. She and her daughter lay flat out over the edge talking and encouraging him even though he wasn't moving while her husband went for the rescue team. Luckily he was only severely winded and had some cuts and bruises and was kept in hospital overnight for observation. My friend held together until the doctor came out and told her there was nothing serious. Only then, did she collapse and shake and thought how it could have been much worse. I've seen similar when children have strayed while shopping or visiting the zoo etc. The mothers cope during the emergency and collapse afterwards. As with the appendix episode, it seems more about Joey than the child.


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey and Co. in Tirol
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2017, 21:35 
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This is the book where I find the most incomprehensible situation. Len asks Ruey where to put the rolls and is told - in that mug over there. How big is the mug, how small are the rolls?? Even if they would fit, seems a daft place!


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey and Co. in Tirol
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2017, 22:58 
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I also found the mug/roll situation peculiar.

When younger l really liked this book and it is pretty tattered. Even now I think it is one of better of the later books.

I thought the Richardsons and the Maynards worked well together and it was good having an older boy in the story. The Richardsons stayed as a part of the Maynard family and had relatives to go to when EBD didn't want them around.

On the down side, I did think Joey was unbearable in the first chapter. She was OTT and pretty rude to Madge and later on the episode regarding Madge's weight was plain bitc-hy. No-one says something like that unless they are having a dig.

I also found Len's perfection in this book a bit much. Was there no end to her talents? Up until now she had at least one fault in that she fussed over her sisters too much. However this would appear to have been rectified by the first page of the second chapter so we now have: Len Maynard - officially perfect.

It is amazing too the way that Len is picked out by her parents for all the important jobs. Con and Margot are treated as also-rans. No wonder Con was moony and Margot a brat. They were completely eclipsed by their 'oldest' sister.

Also, would a responsible doctor really have taken Roger back to the Richardsons chalet when he was liable to run a temperature or bleed and leave him in the care of a bunch of kids headed by 14 year old Len?

Sorry to have another go at Len but she really was stupid trying to take care of Charles herself. What has also only struck me recently was that Len was confident enough to take this on herself i.e. no going to Anna for guidance or to her triplets for support.

I feel sorry for Len being stuck with Reg before she had even left school but I have no doubt that she would have been the boss in the relationship, albeit in a sweet, quiet way.


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey and Co. in Tirol
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2017, 23:09 
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Madge and Jem are great, though. Madge is obviously upset by Joey's crack about her weight, and stresses about needing to go on a diet before Peggy's wedding - and (according to Josette's letter) Jem tells her that he thinks she looks fine as she is. I love Jem for that! And Madge rushes out to Switzerland when Joey is struggling to cope, just as she rushed back from Canada to support Dick when Mollie was having her operation.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey and Co. in Tirol
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2017, 03:28 
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I loved Jem for that - a very nice husband.

Does Joey ever help Madge? The one time I think the opportunity was at least there was in the months before Ailie was born and Madge wasn't too well after Josette's accident, Joey took herself to Yorkshire for the whole summer. Robin, Daisy and the Highland Twins were all abandoned and Robin spending her last hols before uni!


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey and Co. in Tirol
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2017, 09:13 
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Audrey25 wrote:
Sorry to have another go at Len but she really was stupid trying to take care of Charles herself.


She's not sure at the beginning how bad Charles is and if he just had a tummy ache and just needed an aspirin, then she felt she could handle it. The minute she realises how bad it is she does call Jack and Joey.

But poor Charles had hours of pain at that stage, and for any child to feel they should not disturb their mother no matter how much their tummy hurts, should give Joey a jolt.

Laura V wrote:
Also the far-fetchedness of the Richardsons being related to the Rosomon really irritates me - not another long lost relative :roll: !


And if it was to make the Richardsons feel like 'family' to the Maynards then that doesn't really work as Daisy is related to Jem not Joey or Jack. And the relationship is via her husband who has no blood relationship to any of the M/B/R clan.

Quote:
Oh, and that notion that Scots can apparently tell which way is north by sheer instinct is a mystery to this born and bred Weegie. I can only tell you where north is if the sun's out, or with a compass, same as anyone else.


That episode was so dumb considering they were lost in a mist, cold and hungry and desperate to get home. And they decide to rely on an urban myth to get out safely!

Quote:
The Maynards seem absolutely incapable of comprehending that not everyone shares their way of living. Why *should* Ruey waste time and money on decoration for a chalet they've only rented for a few weeks, and which they literally only use for eating and sleeping in?


Ruey should have just said "thank you for your help, but I can look after Roger now" and shown them the door. But I'm sure we all know people like Len who cannot keep their opinions to themselves and are sure they are right.

Meanwhile, Con's muttering the corner "And they call ME tactless!"

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Last edited by Joyce on 03 Dec 2017, 10:07, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey and Co. in Tirol
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2017, 12:06 
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What puzzled me a bit was them taking Charles back to the Swiss san instead of a local hospital.If the boy has appendicitis surely speed was of the essence, not a not very fast and longish journey in an ambulance, and how long did it take the ambulance to get there in the first place?


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey and Co. in Tirol
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2017, 12:25 
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It looks as if it was the Sanatorium on the Sonnalpe, so the local one.

ISTR that I quite enjoyed this book in my early teens, but reading it as an adult, one rather curious thing struck me: for a work of fiction, it contains a very high level of methodological instruction. First aid for a severed artery, with general nursing/ care advice, management and decoration of the home, and how to repel unwanted visitors (I may have missed one or two). I still suspect it was subject matter that EMBD had given thought to for another annual and didn't want to waste...


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey and Co. in Tirol
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2017, 12:33 
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Terrygo wrote:
What puzzled me a bit was them taking Charles back to the Swiss san instead of a local hospital.If the boy has appendicitis surely speed was of the essence, not a not very fast and longish journey in an ambulance, and how long did it take the ambulance to get there in the first place?


A bit confusing but it wasn't the Swiss San they took him to but the Austrian San which Jem set up and was still in operation, owned by somebody else.

Once the Maynards go home Daisy who comes to holiday with her family at the new Maynard holiday house , is going to keep an eye on Charles who will be staying on for a while at the Austrian San. I think Daisy and family could also be going to take him home to Freudesheim.

Edited to add - Crossed with Noreen's post


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey and Co. in Tirol
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2017, 16:33 
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Posts: 302
Location: North Carolina, USA
What are the odds of severing an artery by falling over a stone after running into someone? You have to fall over an unusually sharp-edged stone at just the right angle and with enough force for it to slice through layers of skin, muscle and fat. I'm not a medic or a gambler, but the odds of this happening seem extremely low.

If the Richardsons are renting their chalet, it's madness to do any painting without the owners' permission.

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 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey and Co. in Tirol
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2017, 18:05 
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Concerned about new girl
Concerned about new girl
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Joined: 03 Jan 2010, 22:35
Posts: 1900
Location: Berkshire, England
Audrey25 wrote:
I loved Jem for that - a very nice husband.

Does Joey ever help Madge? The one time I think the opportunity was at least there was in the months before Ailie was born and Madge wasn't too well after Josette's accident, Joey took herself to Yorkshire for the whole summer. Robin, Daisy and the Highland Twins were all abandoned and Robin spending her last hols before uni!


She did take Sybil with her to Yorkshire, so took one child off Madge's hands. Can't remember where the twins went, but if Robin and Daisy were with Madge they'd have been able to help with the children, though by then most of them weren't very young. Sybil was 10, so David was about 12 and the Bettany crowd ranged from about 10 (Jackie) to about 14.


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 Post subject: Re: Books: Joey and Co. in Tirol
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2017, 18:25 
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Being told to stand on your own two feet
Being told to stand on your own two feet
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Joined: 13 May 2015, 20:15
Posts: 146
Location: Cumbria
A bit confusing but it wasn't the Swiss San they took him to but the Austrian San which Jem set up and was still in operation, owned by somebody else.



If it was the Austrian San that does make more sense rather than a long unnecessary journey.


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