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 Post subject: Re: Winners of Margot Venables Prize
PostPosted: 03 May 2018, 00:54 
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I think Mary Lou should have got a prize just for being Mary Lou. She was kind and caring and tried to help everyone. IMHO she was the best head girl and probably the most outstanding person who graced the doors of the CS.


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 Post subject: Re: Winners of Margot Venables Prize
PostPosted: 12 May 2018, 03:24 
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Alison H wrote:
Mary-Lou getting a special prize just for being Mary-Lou is along the same lines: it's just bigging up favourite characters. ... but to give one just to Mary-Lou seems to belittle all the effort made by previous head girls.


Especially as HG like Hillary and Cornelia were in charge when the war was on.

ML doesn't have to deal with helping the girls to go to sleep in shelters, comforting schoolmates when they discover family members have died, watching their own close friends being taken away and wondering what is happening to them in Nazi occupied countries etc

When you think about it exactly what does ML do that is so exceptional?

We know as readers how many times she has butted in and supposedly helped girls out, but would the wider school have any idea?

The lecture delivered to the triplets was given in private, it's unlikely the girls know about the 'help' she provides Joan and in her early years she leads an exclusive 'gang' around that every one is supposed to follow and listen to but not allowed to join!

It's more ML sets a vague example of behaviour the other girls are supposed to emulate.

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 Post subject: Re: Winners of Margot Venables Prize
PostPosted: 12 May 2018, 10:15 
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She is really lovely to Jessica Wayne, especially when Rosamund dies.


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 Post subject: Re: Winners of Margot Venables Prize
PostPosted: 12 May 2018, 17:19 
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The business of giving people "prizes" just because they are who they are occurs in real life and does cause a tremendous amount of ill-feeling.

I remember someone being given a gift to thank them when they stepped down from a voluntary post. At least two people there had done the same job without being given a gift and both were really upset by it.
At least the previous HG aren't going to be there having it rubbed in that they weren't popular enough to be given anything. Because that's really what the MV prize is - a popularity prize.


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 Post subject: Re: Winners of Margot Venables Prize
PostPosted: 14 May 2018, 04:26 
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Mia wrote:
She is really lovely to Jessica Wayne, especially when Rosamund dies.


yes, Jessica is definitely another example of a person ML helps to fit into the CS community. But again, it's done in private and it's seriously unlikely that the rest of the school would know anything of it.

Victoria wrote:
The business of giving people "prizes" just because they are who they are occurs in real life and does cause a tremendous amount of ill-feeling.
...
At least the previous HG aren't going to be there having it rubbed in that they weren't popular enough to be given anything. Because that's really what the MV prize is - a popularity prize.


My high school had an "appreciation" award which was bestowed by the teachers. We called it the "suck up" award which gives you an idea of what we thought of it :D

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 Post subject: Re: Winners of Margot Venables Prize
PostPosted: 14 May 2018, 07:48 
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It's about the only thing at the CS which isn't decided by the staff, come to think of it. In the Dimsie books, the girls vote for who'll be Head Girl. That was done at my school too, and there was a strong rumour in my year - very unfair to the lovely girl who did become Head Girl - that one of the people who became a deputy HG had actually got the most votes, but that the headmistress had refused to let her be HG because she didn't have the best of track records. The issue of voting for HG is interesting, because it can easily end up being a popularity contest, and the most popular person may well not be the best person for a position of responsibility.

They don't have auditions for plays, either - that's a big thing in the Kingscote books. OK, the staff at Kingscote make the decisions, but people are given a chance to show what they can do, whereas someone like Yseult isn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Winners of Margot Venables Prize
PostPosted: 15 May 2018, 10:37 
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Joyce wrote:
Mia wrote:
She is really lovely to Jessica Wayne, especially when Rosamund dies.


yes, Jessica is definitely another example of a person ML helps to fit into the CS community. But again, it's done in private and it's seriously unlikely that the rest of the school would know anything of it.


There is something in Genius when Francie Wilford, Emmerence hope and Connie Winter all get into trouble and Emmerence and Connie both apologise to the Head Girl, whereas Francie doesn't. Emmerence and Connie are explaining the situation to Margot. Mary lou comes into the Common Room for some other reason and the girls all turn to her for help and to see if she can intercede for Francie with Betsy Lucy. There is a line something along the lines of the girls all knew they could turn to Mary Lou for help and even though she was no longer the Head of Middles she did try as much as she was able to and the Middles knew they could all still turn to her for help and she would do her best for them

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 Post subject: Re: Winners of Margot Venables Prize
PostPosted: 15 May 2018, 17:46 
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Yet that head of the middles position, which was announced at assembly as one of 'only important things' shared on the first night back - is a role which is created for Mary-Lou and expires when she becomes a senior


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 Post subject: Re: Winners of Margot Venables Prize
PostPosted: 16 May 2018, 00:23 
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claire wrote:
Yet that head of the middles position, which was announced at assembly as one of 'only important things' shared on the first night back - is a role which is created for Mary-Lou and expires when she becomes a senior


Actually Margia Stevens is also head of the middles at one point, so perhaps EBD had a plan for that to be continued. She may have tried it with the Senior Middles at St Clare's and then got caught up in the war and forgot about it until she had someone suitable in Mary Lou.

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 Post subject: Re: Winners of Margot Venables Prize
PostPosted: 16 May 2018, 03:04 
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Fiona Mc wrote:
There is a line something along the lines of the girls all knew they could turn to Mary Lou for help and even though she was no longer the Head of Middles she did try as much as she was able to and the Middles knew they could all still turn to her for help and she would do her best for them


She actually butts in the conversation and asks what happened and the comment is that from anyone else they would have been resentful of the intrusion, but because ML had been head of the Middles the year before, they don't tell her to mind her own business.

So they tell her what happened. But does she actually do anything to help Francie or to help resolve the situation? Not that we know of.

I don't dislike ML. I just feel that EBD really built her up as the best CS girl that ever was, and that is far from the case.

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 Post subject: Re: Winners of Margot Venables Prize
PostPosted: 16 May 2018, 08:42 
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I don't think Margia was an official announced position though (I may be wrong) just she seemed to be the unofficial leader - in the way that Mary-Lou was before they moved to Switzerland


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 Post subject: Re: Winners of Margot Venables Prize
PostPosted: 16 May 2018, 12:35 
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claire wrote:
I don't think Margia was an official announced position though (I may be wrong) just she seemed to be the unofficial leader - in the way that Mary-Lou was before they moved to Switzerland


It may be open to interpretation - Rivals at the start of ch 4 - have a look and see what you think.

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 Post subject: Re: Winners of Margot Venables Prize
PostPosted: 16 May 2018, 16:46 
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Just reread it and I see it as Margia being the one who is the natural leader of the group - rather than any official status. In exactly the same way that MaryLou was leader/head of the middles before she was made 'Head of the Middles'

She may also have been head girl of the fourth form - which would give her that default role

First mention of Margia in Rivals it just calls her 'one of the middles' when introducing her - so surely if it was official she'd have been introduced as such in the first mention of the story?


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 Post subject: Re: Winners of Margot Venables Prize
PostPosted: 16 May 2018, 16:59 
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Chapter 4 does call her 'the head of the middles' and then she goes on to head a meeting of said middles,but I agree, its not clear if that is a title or EBD stating Margie was the leader of that group.


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