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 Post subject: Re: Choosing baby names in CS-land
PostPosted: 10 Jul 2019, 11:49 
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Carlotta wasn't a random suggestion. EBD probably made it up on the spur of the moment, but I think she mentions that Bruno's second name is Karl. Or some other family connection. One can read it that Jo is accepting the honour and potential responsibility if being godmother, but suggests that this time they should give their daughter a family name. (Gretchen, their older daughter, may well have been named after Madge.)

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing baby names in CS-land
PostPosted: 10 Jul 2019, 12:58 
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I think Gretchen was probably named after Frieda's mum, whom Joey calls "Tante Gretchen". Frieda probably ending up wishing that she'd decided to name her younger daughter after Bernhilda or Bruno's mum or anyone else, rather than having the awkwardness of Joey turning her suggestion down!

It's one of those random minor storylines that don't seem to serve any purpose - why not just say that Frieda and Bruno had chosen the name Carlotta, and leave it at that?

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing baby names in CS-land
PostPosted: 10 Jul 2019, 15:38 
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Alison H wrote:
It's one of those random minor storylines that don't seem to serve any purpose - why not just say that Frieda and Bruno had chosen the name Carlotta, and leave it at that?


Because Jo wouldn't have been involved? :D

Since this occurs in the same book, why did Jo need to cart all those suitcases/trunks AND her children across the Channel, France and Switzerland? The removal van was going there anyway, why not send most of the cases with them? Why did they carry so many clothes with them?


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing baby names in CS-land
PostPosted: 10 Jul 2019, 16:20 
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Carlotta is definitely Joey's god-daughter. When Joey relays the news of the baby's birth, (see Changes, Chapter XI - Joey Brings News) she says she is to be either Carlotta Josephine or Josephine Carlotta, Frieda and Bruno hadn't yet decided.

I must admit I have also wondered why on earth Joey had to bring so much luggage with her on her cross-Europe trip, but she *was* travelling with a pack of children, and not necessarily any prospect of washing clothes etc. en route. But she was certainly glad to be relieved of the bulk of it once she reached Simone's home - Andre took "everything but the cases you need for tonight and tomorrow to the Gare de l'Est and forwarding them by the seven train this evening. Jack will be at Basle to meet it and take charge of them." (Joey Goes to the Oberland, Chapter 7)


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing baby names in CS-land
PostPosted: 10 Jul 2019, 16:55 
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I don't think there is any suggestion about Joey being rude, she doesn't say she doesn't want another Josephine as several of you seem to be implying. I suspect the Armada edition gives a briefer version which may have implied rudeness?

This is original Chambers -

Quote:
"They've asked me to choose a second name, seeing that she's to be Josephine after me as Gretchen was named for her Grannie and Madge.
"What have you chosen?" Peggy asked eagerly.
Sent them a choice of three - Anna, Simonetta, Carlotta. I'm rather hoping they they'll pitch on Carlotta, Bruno's second name is Carl.
"Carlotta Josephine" Miss Derwent said... "or is it to be Josephine Carlotta?"
"I can't tell you".... Jo said
Quote:


Absolutely nothing at all rude here!


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing baby names in CS-land
PostPosted: 10 Jul 2019, 19:06 
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Maybe I'm getting muddled with something else :lol: . Or maybe it was a drabble - I forget what I've read where sometimes!

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing baby names in CS-land
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 07:29 
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I think it may have been in connection with Simone's youngest child - and I seem to remember that EMBD has her as both Roseline and Anne-Claire, but maybe those were all among her names - rather than Frieda's, but again I don't think any rudeness was intended.

As bythebrook said earlier, our author seemed to like using the same names over and over, though I think that when it came to Elma Conroy in CS in the Oberland she must have forgotten that there'd been an American pupil called Elma Conroy in the later Tyrol books, especially as Hilary Bennett even later says in Does It Again “We’ve never had an Elma Conroy here, staff or girl, to my knowledge” - she's promptly corrected by another character, of course, but only with the fact that there has been one, not two.


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing baby names in CS-land
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 07:40 
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The Irma von Rothenfels confusion is the best one!

And I assume she got the name von Rothenfels from The First Violin ... where a character called Eugen von Rothenfels uses Eugen Courvoisier as a pseudonym, and there's also a Herr von Helfen. Not to mention Grizel Cochrane being the heroine of a Scottish ballad. I'd love to know whether she just liked the names and used them, or whether they were in her head and she genuinely forgot that she'd read them somewhere. Elsie Carr's also a character in What Katy Did, but Carr's quite a common surname and Elsie would have been quite a common first name them.

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing baby names in CS-land
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 10:20 
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bythebrook wrote:
Since this occurs in the same book, why did Jo need to cart all those suitcases/trunks AND her children across the Channel, France and Switzerland? The removal van was going there anyway, why not send most of the cases with them? Why did they carry so many clothes with them?


The vans left before the family did so they have to carry all of the clothes and games/toys/books they use between the time of leaving and arrival.

It's a little complicated, but this is the timeline as best I can figure it:

Friday - Daisy's wedding
Saturday - Jack departs; vans leave for Switzerland; Primula goes to the Round House
Sunday - Robin's last day before departure
Monday - Robin departs for Canada
Wednesday - Jo, Primula, Anna and the children leave; overnight in Paris
Thursday - day in Paris
Friday - departure for Switzerland; overnight with Frieda until Monday
Monday - parcel of rain coats arrives at the Goernetz Platz; Jo and the others complete their journey to the same place; vans arrive a day early

So they have four trunks (which becomes two trunks a few paragraphs later), six cases, two bags and and satchels to carry the clothes and belongings that Anna, Jo, Primula, Len, Con, Margot, Charles, Steve, Mike, Felix and Felicity (and most likely also Jack) used over the course of five nights (which becomes nine) and the associated days. Most likely that would include the wedding clothes as they wouldn't want to pack things they had worn before they could be properly cleaned. Also cases and trunks then were a good deal smaller than the mammoth ones we have now so I can definitely see them needing that much luggage!

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing baby names in CS-land
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 14:08 
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It does seem complicated! They could have easily taken only what they needed and had the wedding clothes etc sent on later. Also buying possibly eleven new raincoats seems highly extravagant. I know EBD wanted to spin out the journey into a whole book - and she certainly did. What irritates me is that once again Jo has to be treated like fragile china - naps on the train etc. I'm also intrigued by the fact that all eight children have to have an individual piece of old towelling for wiping mouths after eating raspberries!


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing baby names in CS-land
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 15:11 
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The raincoat thing is really weird, as is the fact that Andre and Primula, who can't have known each other very well, end up spending the day together in order to get new raincoats - although at least it meant that Primula got to see some of the sights of Paris. Why not just say that Jo had decided to stay on for an extra day to spend some time with Simone?!

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing baby names in CS-land
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 15:19 
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What I like most about this book is seeing Simone and Frieda with their familie. Shame she didn't also include Marie!


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing baby names in CS-land
PostPosted: 12 Jul 2019, 00:11 
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The original plan for getting to Switzerland involved Joey and Anna with all that luggage plus eight children - three 10 year olds, a 7 year old, a 6 year old, a 4 year old and two infants - and Joey's breezy assertion that she can depend on Len and Steve to look after the younger ones.

One of the adults would be pretty taken up with the twins - maneuvering a double pram through Europe, preparing bottles, feeding, changing, cleaning, soothing - leaving the other to manage the luggage, tickets, train changes, meals, and so on, while Len and Steve are in charge of the kids. I picture them part way there, both twins are screaming their heads off while Anna tries to prepare bottles in a train station, Joey's trying to manage the tickets and customs and find multiple porters for the pile luggage. Meanwhile, the rest of the kids are hangry and Len is unsuccessfully trying to keep them in line, and Mike takes off to check out a cool train and no-one knows where he is. Then Joey faints from the stress, leaving Anna and Len in charge.

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing baby names in CS-land
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2019, 05:44 
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KB wrote:
bythebrook wrote:
Since this occurs in the same book, why did Jo need to cart all those suitcases/trunks AND her children across the Channel, France and Switzerland? The removal van was going there anyway, why not send most of the cases with them? Why did they carry so many clothes with them?


The vans left before the family did so they have to carry all of the clothes and games/toys/books they use between the time of leaving and arrival.

It's a little complicated, but this is the timeline as best I can figure it:

Friday - Daisy's wedding
Saturday - Jack departs; vans leave for Switzerland; Primula goes to the Round House
Sunday - Robin's last day before departure
Monday - Robin departs for Canada
Wednesday - Jo, Primula, Anna and the children leave; overnight in Paris
Thursday - day in Paris
Friday - departure for Switzerland; overnight with Frieda until Monday
Monday - parcel of rain coats arrives at the Goernetz Platz; Jo and the others complete their journey to the same place; vans arrive a day early

So they have four trunks (which becomes two trunks a few paragraphs later), six cases, two bags and and satchels to carry the clothes and belongings that Anna, Jo, Primula, Len, Con, Margot, Charles, Steve, Mike, Felix and Felicity (and most likely also Jack) used over the course of five nights (which becomes nine) and the associated days. Most likely that would include the wedding clothes as they wouldn't want to pack things they had worn before they could be properly cleaned. Also cases and trunks then were a good deal smaller than the mammoth ones we have now so I can definitely see them needing that much luggage!


But after the vans left, they still had beds and other furniture at Plas Gwyn - so what was in the vans? I agree with others that sending the luggage separately except for items actually required on the journey would have made it much more manageable.

Jack manages to get out of the move, even though the vans wouldn't be arriving until after Joey, children etc. according to the original schedule (and the vans only get there just as Joey does, after she has been delayed for several days on her journey).

Is it realistic for furniture vans to take more than a week getting from Herefordshire to Switzerland? Here in Australia people are used to longer distances (I've got a 400km move to do this year).


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing baby names in CS-land
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2019, 07:24 
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There were no speed limits then - not in the UK, anyway, not sure about France and Switzerland - but they'd have been going ordinary roads rather than motorways, not always easy in a large vehicle.

Even now, it takes 4 hours (thank you, Google!) to get from Hereford to Dover without a break, and it would have taken longer then, so that would've been the best part of a driving day. It always surprised me that EBD seems to ignore how long it'd take to get to Dover - they seem to be there in the mornings, so anyone coming from northern England, Scotland, Wales or the south west would have had to travel at least as far as London the night before, and stay over

Getting removal vans up Alpine roads probably wouldn't be much fun even now.
Having said which, Google is giving 13 hours for Hereford to Grindelwald by road, so, even allowing for the lack of motorways, a week does sound like a lot!

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing baby names in CS-land
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2019, 07:30 
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bythebrook wrote:
But after the vans left, they still had beds and other furniture at Plas Gwyn - so what was in the vans? I agree with others that sending the luggage separately except for items actually required on the journey would have made it much more manageable.


Not quite, they leave some furniture behind at Plas Gwyn - it sounds rather like they either had enough beds for everyone to have a spare, or they purchased new ones either for Switzerland or Plas Gwyn. I don't recall a second lot of stuff arriving a few days later.

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing baby names in CS-land
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2019, 09:07 
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I suppose as Freudesheim had formerly been a guest-house, they may have bought some or all of its beds as part of the deal. But it sounds as if the original intention wasn't necessarily to really settle in Switzerland - I seem to remember that they don't sell Plas Gwn until later in the series.


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing baby names in CS-land
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2019, 10:02 
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I've just had another check and found this:

Quote:
We’re not taking an awful lot, in case you haven’t realized that. Beds and tables and chairs – oh, and bookcases – are the main items. Most of what we have will stay here and we’ll get the other things we need by degrees.

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing baby names in CS-land
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2019, 13:55 
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They may have arranged for the vans to arrive shortly after Joey did, although I'm not sure where they planned to sleep if Joey and Co had showed up on time. It's pretty common to move and delay delivery until you're reading to have it.

However, I think a lot of it was just that logistics (and math) were not EBD's strong points (or Joey's, for that matter). The school manages to disassemble and pack everything needed for a school of 250+ students plus residential staff - beds, tables, chairs, desks, science labs, linens, dishes, books, sports equipment, multiple pianos - clean and prepare a newly rented building, move everything to an island via a limited ferry service, set everything up and have it ready to go, all in between two terms.

You'd think the San would be willing to spring for a relocation package. Something as high level as moving abroad to be head of a large Sanatorium should have the San paying for professional movers (the kind that pack and unpack everything), plus temporary accommodation until the house is ready to live in.

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing baby names in CS-land
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2019, 15:16 
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Noreen wrote:
I suppose as Freudesheim had formerly been a guest-house, they may have bought some or all of its beds as part of the deal. But it sounds as if the original intention wasn't necessarily to really settle in Switzerland - I seem to remember that they don't sell Plas Gwn until later in the series.


It says that they only planned on going for 10 years. It's quite realistic how it works out - people relocate because one partner's been offered a good job or a promotion, but originally intend to move back home to be near their family and friends and their old life, and then they settle in where they are, maybe have kids who've never lived anywhere else and think of it as home, and decide to stay.

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