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 Post subject: Re: Maynard Boys
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2019, 14:54 
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I assumed that the Maynard boys would have been visited by/spend short exeats with their aunts and uncles and cousins (some of whom with which they were likely to be at school)

Some time ago I read some research that found that boys attending boarding schools had tended to become detached from their families - effectively they become visitors within their own families because they are excluded from day-to-day life. They would have had no friends or interests at "home". This explains (what often seems odd to us nowadays) why boys seemed to be quite happy to spend school holidays with their friends. They were closer emotionally to their friends and they were just as much visitors in their friends homes as they were in their own. There is some mention of Stephen, I think, staying with friends in the holidays.

Girls, being far less likely to go away to school in the first place, and less likely to go away at such an early age, didn't experience the same degree of alienation although we do see the same pattern of girls spending time in holidays with their friends in those that do attend boarding school. (Girls were also likely to benefit from their mothers' social networks which would have been based in the home area whereas male social networks were not - itself an effect of going away to school)

it would have been interesting to see what would have happened if the Maynards had returned to England after 10 years. Would the girls have continued to be sent to the Swiss school or would they have gone to Glendower House? (it might have affected the Bettany/Russell girls as well - I'd expect either ALL of them would go to the Swiss school or ALL of them to go Glendower House) In either case, Joey would not have been on top of the School as she was when she lived in Switzerland. It would have been too late to make a difference for the older children but it could have left the younger girls in a situation where their parents did not come to school events and where they stayed at school for half-term and the younger boys where their parents were arounf for school events and they could go home for the short holidays.


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 Post subject: Re: Maynard Boys
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2019, 15:29 
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I can't imagine Steve and Charles ever feeling at home on the Platz. By the time the younger children were growing up, there was more of a community there - Geoff and Phil were almost exactly the same age as Biddy and Eugen's twins, Marie and Pat, and there were the Graves, Morris and Peters children, and possibly some others we don't hear about. But Steve and Charles would have had no-one of their own age there, and even the Embury boys Mike was friends with were some distance away. They probably didn't speak German much better than the average British schoolboy did, either, because they wouldn't have got much chance to use it.

What tends to happen in books by Enid Blyton, Lorna Hill, etc, is that people go to the same boarding schools as their cousins and family friends (of the same gender), so their pals are around in the holidays, but that doesn't seem to happen in CS-land.

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 Post subject: Re: Maynard Boys
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2019, 15:53 
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Alison H wrote:
They probably didn't speak German much better than the average British schoolboy did, either, because they wouldn't have got much chance to use it.


I see no reason why Steve and Charles should not have been able to speak German. Anna and Joey could have spoken German with them, so could their sisters, they spent holidays with Marie, Frieda and their children, Jack must have spoken German too, as did Madge and Jem and most of their cousins.

They also had a holiday home on the Tiernsee....

I see them operating in groups similar to the ones I spent many holidays in which usually had three languages going at once with the children happily communicating in at least two of them and the adults hopping to and fro in three....

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 Post subject: Re: Maynard Boys
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2019, 16:54 
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cestina wrote:
I see them operating in groups similar to the ones I spent many holidays in which usually had three languages going at once with the children happily communicating in at least two of them and the adults hopping to and fro in three....
Or even (the younger kids, anyway) a sort of polyglot mix, which is what happened in my form in the seventh year at grammar school (two dozen people studying A level in one or more of French, German, Latin, Russian and Spanish, plus a native Dutch speaker). I can't see EMBD approving, though!


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 Post subject: Re: Maynard Boys
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2019, 17:26 
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Noreen wrote:
cestina wrote:
I see them operating in groups similar to the ones I spent many holidays in which usually had three languages going at once with the children happily communicating in at least two of them and the adults hopping to and fro in three....
Or even (the younger kids, anyway) a sort of polyglot mix, which is what happened in my form in the seventh year at grammar school (two dozen people studying A level in one or more of French, German, Latin, Russian and Spanish, plus a native Dutch speaker). I can't see EMBD approving, though!

Oh yes very likely to be a mishmash of languages!

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 Post subject: Re: Maynard Boys
PostPosted: 29 Jul 2019, 00:08 
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Caroline wrote:
I wonder how many times parents did visit their children at boarding school in the 40s and 50s?

Perhaps Dick / Mollie and Jem / Madge did that visiting for the Maynard boys, in the same way Joey and Jack did for the Russell and Bettany girls?


By the time the CS went to Switzerland the only Bettany was Maeve. There were the Russell girls and I am assuming Joey had behind the scenes contact with them and Maeve.

Although Madge and Jem are in Australia for 2 years until near the end of the series we don't hear of Ailie at Feudesheim for hols. She is not there at the start of Summer Term and doesn't Robin meet her at the station the term before?

Adrienne is also never at Freudesheim.

We hear of Madge having Joey's kids. Also the Emburys sometimes have the boys - and younger girls.

Same in Carola Storms. There is a huge list of people staying at the Bettanys for Christmas but it does not include David Sybil whose parents were in Canada.

No doubt Jo was brilliant to Robin and Daisy but they also helped her.

Could Jo possibly be one of these mothers who sometimes dumps her kids on others but not so keen to return the favour? Or alternatively does not always follow things through.


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 Post subject: Re: Maynard Boys
PostPosted: 29 Jul 2019, 07:16 
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I can't remember a single mention of Ailie visiting Freudesheim, and I don't think Sybil, Josette or Maeve went there much either. Jo seemed more interested in Jo Scott. She didn't seem very involved with her close friends' daughters either. I think that was because EBD wanted the CS to be one big family and didn't want to show Jo giving preference to anyone, even her own nieces, but it's still odd.

I like to think that the Russells and Bettanys visited the Maynard boys at school, although Madge and Jem were away quite a lot, and we don't know whereabouts the Maynards' school was - it might have been a fair way from where they lived.

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 Post subject: Re: Maynard Boys
PostPosted: 29 Jul 2019, 10:36 
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I seem to remember David went to Winchester and I should think the Bettanys, apart maybe from John who could have gone to Dartmouth, also went there.

I don't have a clue where the Maynards went. David and Riz went to the Cathedral School in Hereford to begin with but I don't think the Maynards went there. I am sure if it was at all possible the Russells/Bettanys would have visited them.

I do think though, at least now and again, that Joey and Jack could have been seen to visit them when they were in England for other reasons


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 Post subject: Re: Maynard Boys
PostPosted: 30 Jul 2019, 16:29 
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How do we know they didn't!?! :? EBD couldn't include every little thing we might have wanted to know, but just because she didn't mention it, doesn't mean Jack and Jo didn't visit the boys etc. etc. I know! I'm going mad! :shock: They're not real! Are they? :hiding:

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 Post subject: Re: Maynard Boys
PostPosted: 30 Jul 2019, 19:00 
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cestina wrote:
Alison H wrote:
They probably didn't speak German much better than the average British schoolboy did, either, because they wouldn't have got much chance to use it.


I see no reason why Steve and Charles should not have been able to speak German. Anna and Joey could have spoken German with them, so could their sisters, they spent holidays with Marie, Frieda and their children, Jack must have spoken German too, as did Madge and Jem and most of their cousins.

They also had a holiday home on the Tiernsee....

I see them operating in groups similar to the ones I spent many holidays in which usually had three languages going at once with the children happily communicating in at least two of them and the adults hopping to and fro in three....


When they're stuck in traffic in the minibus (because of a tree?) It's implied the boys don't speak German by the languages they shout to passers by. I can't check the quote but it's something along the lines of the boys shouted in English and French and the triplets chimed in with German.

I agree though that the older boys would probably speak German with a Tyrolean accent from Anna and Mike onward should have Swiss influences too.


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 Post subject: Re: Maynard Boys
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2019, 14:02 
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cestina wrote:
Alison H wrote:
They probably didn't speak German much better than the average British schoolboy did, either, because they wouldn't have got much chance to use it.


I see no reason why Steve and Charles should not have been able to speak German. Anna and Joey could have spoken German with them, so could their sisters, they spent holidays with Marie, Frieda and their children, Jack must have spoken German too, as did Madge and Jem and most of their cousins.

They also had a holiday home on the Tiernsee....

I see them operating in groups similar to the ones I spent many holidays in which usually had three languages going at once with the children happily communicating in at least two of them and the adults hopping to and fro in three....

They did. I don't know what book it was, possibly Ruey, but Joey mentions making sure the boys all keep up with their languages. It also makes me wonder if any of them were mates with Marie or Frieda's boys. I know Mike hangs out with the Emburys - they have the same tutor?


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 Post subject: Re: Maynard Boys
PostPosted: 02 Aug 2019, 07:20 
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PigRescuer wrote:
When they're stuck in traffic in the minibus (because of a tree?) It's implied the boys don't speak German by the languages they shout to passers by. I can't check the quote but it's something along the lines of the boys shouted in English and French and the triplets chimed in with German.

I agree though that the older boys would probably speak German with a Tyrolean accent from Anna and Mike onward should have Swiss influences too.


It's also implied in Joey & Co in that their German is very limited:

Quote:
“It’s divided into two towns, the Unterstadt or Lower Town and the Oberstadt or Upper Town, Chas and Steve. It’s high time you boys knew more German!” as his sons looked at him.


Of course, the reason that EBD needs characters who don't speak much German is so that she can translate to an audience who speaks little or none of the language. It's noteworthy that while there are quite a lot of passages in French that don't have translations into English, I can't think of any German apart from Kaffee und Kuchen that isn't translated almost immediately, even words used all the time like Fruehstuck.

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 Post subject: Re: Maynard Boys
PostPosted: 02 Aug 2019, 10:41 
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I would have thought their French would have been worse :lol: . They'd have been more likely to learn French at school than German, but they'd only have had ordinary French lessons, not speaking French for 2 days a week like the girls did, and at that point it would probably have been "la plume de ma tante" type French rather than conversational French. The triplets were supposed to have learnt fluent French at their convent school in (Anglophone!) Toronto, but Charles wouldn't have been at school then, and I don't think we're ever told where Stephen went to school in Canada. Having said which, it's a mystery how Jem, Jack, Hilda, Nell, Kathie and all the others came to speak fluent French and German …

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 Post subject: Re: Maynard Boys
PostPosted: 02 Aug 2019, 12:51 
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I can't understand Jack being so fluent. He would have picked up German at the Tyrol San but it would have been unlikely that he learned much if any at school. He would have been on the 'Modern' side doing mainly science subjects.


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 Post subject: Re: Maynard Boys
PostPosted: 02 Aug 2019, 15:38 
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I suspect the boys' German would have been pretty rudimentary, and mostly limited to family vocabulary. I doubt the Maynards spoke much German at home in England during and just after the war - it wouldn't be worth the social and professional cost. My grandfather was a German immigrant as a child, my mom, born in '39, learned no German because of the war. And I doubt the boys' school taught German at that point. So Charles and Steve would get a bit of German on their vacations, and the younger boys would get some around the Platz. But most of the families with kids on the Platz were English speaking (Emburys, Peters, Burns, Morrisons - the Courvoisiers would be naturally bilingual). Felix and younger would get a year or two of the Chalet kindergarten before going to England.

So I could see them understanding the kind of things Anna would say and be able to respond, and probably do rudimentary shopping and order milky coffee and cakes in a cafe, but not too much beyond that. They wouldn't be up to a German university or a German speaking job.

I wonder if they ran Jack (and Jem, for that matter), through an intensive medical German course before starting to work at the San. Any San staff they hired locally, and a lot of the patients, would be native German speakers who didn't necessarily have much English.

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 Post subject: Re: Maynard Boys
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2019, 21:56 
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I am maybe not remembering correctly but could there be something in Joey & Co that they are going to speak German at one point to help the boys' German and also Ruey when she starts the CS?


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 Post subject: Re: Maynard Boys
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2019, 22:01 
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MaryR wrote:
How do we know they didn't!?! :? EBD couldn't include every little thing we might have wanted to know, but just because she didn't mention it, doesn't mean Jack and Jo didn't visit the boys etc. etc. I know! I'm going mad! :shock: They're not real! Are they? :hiding:


Well, it's never mentioned, is it? Joey is always at CS events and cannot be in two places at once. Montreux visits always mentioned.

As for it not being real, of course it is! Would we be on all of these forums writing about them, if they were not real?!


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 Post subject: Re: Maynard Boys
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2019, 23:26 
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Audrey25 wrote:
I am maybe not remembering correctly but could there be something in Joey & Co that they are going to speak German at one point to help the boys' German and also Ruey when she starts the CS?

There is, and I think she says it in Ruey as well because she wants the boys to keep up their languages.


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 Post subject: Re: Maynard Boys
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2019, 13:26 
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He would have been on the 'Modern' side doing mainly science subjects.

Sorry - "quote" didn't work properly - he would have needed German for Chemistry. This was common even in the 60s - I was unusual reading Chemistry subsid without German. "Modern" often included German for this reason.

I did have a theory that the "new theology" - that which we recognise today (a sweeping statement but in my case refers to liberal anglo catholic) as mainstream theology was so late in coming to English speaking countries was that clergy'theologians would have been on the classics side and the translations would not have been forthcoming unlike chemistry and microbiology when the German/English publication was almost contemporaneous - though I still had to do my own for my doctorate.

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 Post subject: Re: Maynard Boys
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2019, 13:45 
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Interesting point. Actually, I wrote an article about solar powered ships a few years ago and almost all information I could find about them was in German. Which was fine until a colleague phoned me while I was mid-translation and wondered why I was speaking to him in German!


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